Brexit, for once some facts.

tommie

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Precisely. I agree flecc.

This isn’t going to go well. It’s not like crossing the med. If these people end up in the water, they will be dead in under 5 minutes this time of year. The Germans know all about this, they laboratory tested the theory on human beings about 75 years ago. Timed how long it took a human to die in cold water.
Yes this is much better than standing around in some old camp in Calais - just get any old raft, fill it with said economic migrants, push out into the Channel, have mate call the coastguards `people in trouble in Channel guvnor`. Air-sea rescue/seabourne security/Border force/uncle tom cobly et al will be with them in ten minutes...
Result!!..
cosy trip to the UK, all at the tax payers expense..... what`s not to like??!!
 
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Fingers

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It’s nice to see the spirit of Christian Christmas is still alive and well at this time of year.
 
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tillson

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Yes this is much better than standing around in some old camp in Calais - just get any old raft, fill it with said economic migrants, push out into the Channel, have mate call the coastguards `people in trouble in Channel guvnor`. Air-sea rescue/seabourne security/Border force/uncle tom cobly et al will be with them in ten minutes...
Result!!..
cosy trip to the UK, all at the tax payers expense..... what`s not to like??!!
Unfortunately, the French will stand back and watch it happen. The nation, I find them to be a snide and underhand, lacking in moral responsibility coupled with a deep rooted sense of shame.

Interestingly, my Italian niece is staying over Christmas and she says the French are viewed as being unworthy of trust by Italians.

The U.K. is viewed as being very compliant with EU legislation (she is an international lawyer working in London). She says the Italians spend a fortune on EU fines for non and late compliance.

Migration into Italy is a very sore point. She says Italy feels abandoned by the EU and they perceive an expectation that they must deal with it with little assistance. Germany harvest the highly skilled immigrants such as doctors etc and throw the fodder back into the wider EU ocean. Very interesting to hear a viewpoint from within the heart of the EU.
 
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Danidl

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Then why didn't the French pick them up? They also have a coastguard rescue service and a volunteer lifeboat service, so as the first to spot them they should have acted.
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I dont know where the french actually saw these migrants, but if it were close to the Dover Straites ,or into the sea off Cherbourg ,then they would have been waters claimed by the UK.
Unfortunately, the French will stand back and watch it happen. The nation, I find them to be a snide and underhand, lacking in moral responsibility coupled with a deep rooted sense of shame.

Interestingly, my Italian niece is staying over Christmas and she says the French are viewed as being unworthy of trust by Italians.

The U.K. is viewed as being very compliant with EU legislation (she is an international lawyer working in London). She says the Italians spend a fortune on EU fines for non and late compliance.

Migration into Italy is a very sore point. She says Italy feels abandoned by the EU and they perceive an expectation that they must deal with it with little assistance. Germany harvest the highly skilled immigrants such as doctors etc and throw the fodder back into the wider EU ocean. Very interesting to hear a viewpoint from within the heart of the EU.

"Unfortunately, the French will stand back and watch it happen. The nation, I find them to be a snide and underhand, lacking in moral responsibility coupled with a deep rooted sense of shame. " ..
Funnily enough, I suspect that is exactly what the Kurds are thinking about the Americans, and traditionally we would have referred to perfidious Albion..and not in a nice way.
 
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flecc

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I dont know where the french actually saw these migrants, but if it were close to the Dover Straites ,or into the sea off Cherbourg ,then they would have been waters claimed by the UK.
But not relevant for those potentially in danger at sea. The duty then is universal and applies in any navigation.
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Wicky

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RNLI direct debit after learning that they have become involved in people trafficking. I’m saddened and disappointed by the news that they have teamed up with criminal gangs to smuggle illegal immigrants into the U.K.
Still waiting for the link not alt-right / conspiracy theory that says RNLI are involved in people smuggling

You kicked off today venting your spleen with this story in the news but I fail to see RNLI involvement

Three English Channel migrants brought ashore

Just for you...

 
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tillson

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Still waiting for the link not alt-right / conspiracy theory that says RNLI are involved in people smuggling

You kicked off today venting your spleen with this story in the news but I fail to see RNLI involvement

Three English Channel migrants brought ashore

Just for you...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-36413296/rnli-on-rescuing-channel-migrants

I must re-state that the RNLI should not be helping these people traffickers to conduct their business by underwriting the risks. It’s a disgrace.

The RNLI is as bad as the criminal smuggling gangs and the criminals themselves who are trying to enter the country illegally. It has to stop.
 
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Fingers

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Precisely. I agree flecc.

This isn’t going to go well. It’s not like crossing the med. If these people end up in the water, they will be dead in under 5 minutes this time of year. The Germans know all about this, they laboratory tested the theory on human beings about 75 years ago. Timed how long it took a human to die in cold water.

TBF I think human beings established exposure to cold water would kill them pretty quickly when we were monkeys.
 

tillson

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TBF I think human beings established exposure to cold water would kill them pretty quickly when we were monkeys.
Not at all. A species called the German people established the precise time required to kill a human being by chucking them into tanks of water of varying temperatures. They then started their stop watchs, stood by, and timed how long it took for each of them to die at a particular temperature. The test was repeated numerous times with multiple specimens at any given temperature in order to get a good average.

The Germans also put people into chambers and rapidly depressurised them from sea-level to tens of thousands of feet in seconds. They did this to see what happened and to simulate the affects of catastrophic depressurisation of aircraft cockpits. They discovered that adenoids exploded, blood boiled in the skin and eyes ruptured. Again multiple specimens were used to obtain a consistent result. I think the French were complicit in rounding up a few “volunteers” from their own population when they rolled over at the beginning of the war. This all happened not so long ago either.

So as you see, a very different species to the monkey and very different types of behaviour on offer. The monkey being an altogether more worthy occupant of the planet.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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It still is for the deserving, but should not be for those who take advantage.
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but how to define deserving? political and economic refuge aside, what makes one "deserving" of citizenship? would you be happy if the RNLI, for example, rescued Michael Gove if he were afloat somewhere mid la manche?
 
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Zlatan

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Not at all. A species called the German people established the precise time required to kill a human being by chucking them into tanks of water of varying temperatures. They then started their stop watchs, stood by, and timed how long it took for each of them to die at a particular temperature. The test was repeated numerous times with multiple specimens at any given temperature in order to get a good average.

The Germans also put people into chambers and rapidly depressurised them from sea-level to tens of thousands of feet in seconds. They did this to see what happened and to simulate the affects of catastrophic depressurisation of aircraft cockpits. They discovered that adenoids exploded, blood boiled in the skin and eyes ruptured. Again multiple specimens were used to obtain a consistent result. I think the French were complicit in rounding up a few “volunteers” from their own population when they rolled over at the beginning of the war. This all happened not so long ago either.

So as you see, a very different species to the monkey and very different types of behaviour on offer. The monkey being an altogether more worthy occupant of the planet.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gombe_Chimpanzee_War

War like behaviour is probably endemic to us primates... Or perhaps all animals??
 

jonathan.agnew

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Politicians are used to insults, but I think Michael Gove would object to being referred to as fish food. :)

And would you want to eat a fish containing bits of Gove?
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indeed - sadly it doesn't get one out of the dilemma of who to save. In a parallel universe finding myself on an RNLI lifeboat in the channel, having to choose between Michael Gove and a Moroccan crack dealer, I'd feel quite conflicted.
 

tillson

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indeed - sadly it doesn't get one out of the dilemma of who to save. In a parallel universe finding myself on an RNLI lifeboat in the channel, having to choose between Michael Gove and a Moroccan crack dealer, I'd feel quite conflicted.
I’m no fan of Gove, but it would be him everyday of the week faced with that choice. I would run the lifeboat straight over the Moroccan crack dealer on my way to rescue Gove, even if it involved a detour. On the way back, I would repeat the exercise, just to make sure. Hopefully word would soon spread that trying to get to the UK illegally is a treacherous and futile exercise likely to end in death.
 
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jonathan.agnew

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I’m no fan of Gove, but it would be him everyday of the week faced with that choice. I would run the lifeboat straight over the Moroccan crack dealer on my way to rescue Gove, even if it involved a detour. On the way back, I would repeat the exercise, just to make sure. Hopefully word would soon spread that trying to get to the UK illegally is a treacherous and futile exercise likely to end in death.
yes, but think about it, would a crack dealer really do more damage to the uk than gove? would one, metaphorically, be dragging a rabbit with myxomatosis back into the hutch instead of a merely somewhat antisocial one.
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Scraping brexit??? Like off your shoes or something...
We should ban links from such extreme media as Guardian????
It is bad when our mainstream media are so biased... one way or the other...
 
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