Brexit, for once some facts.

[Zlatan]

OG
You OK. Thought you, d got stuck in Co op window.
Obviously no WiFi signal in Co op..

 

[Fingers]

Mchael Heseltine appeared earlier on 'Festival of Politics' in which he retraced the history of conservative (MP) Eurosceptics. Do you know that it was John Major who promised the referendum? According to Heseltine, he and Ken Clarke were dead set against a referendum but agreed with John Major's promise of a referendum if the UK joined the Euro. Somehow, when the news came out, the media 'lost' the Euro context, gave strong support for the referendum and encouraged Euroscepticism.

Actually that would make the perfect second referendum question if there is one. Which is pretty unlikely tbf.

It really would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Q. Do you want to join the Euro. Y/N

Fundamentally that is the crux of the issue. If a majority says yes then we are in. Two footed and fully committed. If no then that’s the end of it.

It would make the argument much simpler. Do you want to be told how much budget you have. How much you can tax etc. Some may like that system. The Scots have it for example. If we don’t accept the Euro then we are not really in the game. We already have to sit out of many meetings and that will only grow as the Euro zone becomes closer and closer to Macron and the Germans plan. We will lose more and more influence as the years roll by to the extant it will be inevitable that we leave sooner rather than later. Hence why I believe we should rip the plaster off now and get on with it.

Are leavers really that committed to the project or do they just like the idea of
easyish access through airports, some imaginary security blanket and the possibility that their little darlings can one day work in an EU country? The stats say they won’t. They won’t even learn a foreign language but maybe! And they should be given the chance no matter what it means!

I’d be very interested to see the results of that referendum. I very much doubt the in vote would get past 30%.

So what’s the point of being in the EU if we’re not really in the EU?

 

[jonathan.agnew]

Actually that would make the perfect second referendum question if there is one. Which is pretty unlikely tbf.

It really would sort the wheat from the chaff.

Q. Do you want to join the Euro. Y/N

Fundamentally that is the crux of the issue. If a majority says yes then we are in. Two footed and fully committed. If no then that’s the end of it.

It would make the argument much simpler. Do you want to be told how much budget you have. How much you can tax etc. Some may like that system. The Scots have it for example. If we don’t accept the Euro then we are not really in the game. We already have to sit out of many meetings and that will only grow as the Euro zone becomes closer and closer to Macron and the Germans plan. We will lose more and more influence as the years roll by to the extant it will be inevitable that we leave sooner rather than later. Hence why I believe we should rip the plaster off now and get on with it.

Are leavers really that committed to the project or do they just like the idea of
easyish access through airports, some imaginary security blanket and the possibility that their little darlings can one day work in an EU country? The stats say they won’t. They won’t even learn a foreign language but maybe! And they should be given the chance no matter what it means!

I’d be very interested to see the results of that referendum. I very much doubt the in vote would get past 30%.

So what’s the point of being in the EU if we’re not really in the EU?

the point is to have a voice in shaping the eu. my god, we english are so sadomasochist - either we think of ourselves as colonial overlords; or we are reduced to instruction taking numpties. it's a false dichotomy that has everything to do with our inner conflict and nothing with reality.

 

[Fingers]

the point is to have a voice in shaping the eu. my god, we english are so sadomasochist - either we think of ourselves as colonial overlords; or we are reduced to instruction taking numpties. it's a false dichotomy that has everything to do with our inner conflict and nothing with reality.

But we won’t be shaping the Eu. That’s the point.

We are going in the opposite direction.

They don’t want us ‘shaping’ them. Whatever that means. They genuinely thought they were bending over backwards when the gave Cameron his deal.

We are like the fat kid in a sports team whose mum and dad pay all his subs and best kit every week but never gets picked. All the gear but no idea.

We are not cut out to be part of a federation. That’s not sadomasochistic it’s just who we are.

Would you vote to be in the Euro Aggers?

 

[Woosh]

I’d be very interested to see the results of that referendum. I very much doubt the in vote would get past 30%.

So what’s the point of being in the EU if we’re not really in the EU?

Heseltine said that our foreign policy has always been based on three aspects: the Common Wealth, the special relationship with the USA and the EU. We squandered the North Sea oil windfall, spent it on consumption rather than invested it.
I guess since joining we relied more and more on the EU for economic growth and are now too weak to leave.

 

[jonathan.agnew]

But we won’t be shaping the Eu. That’s the point.

We are going in the opposite direction.

They don’t want us ‘shaping’ them. Whatever that means. They genuinely thought they were bending over backwards when the gave Cameron his deal.

We are like the fat kid in a sports team whose mum and dad pay all his subs and best kit every week but never gets picked. All the gear but no idea.

We are not cut out to be part of a federation. That’s not sadomasochistic it’s just who we are.

Would you vote to be in the Euro Aggers?

it really is a false dichotomy. we don't have to be the fat kid. it does not have to be federation on the eu's terms. we are more like a withdrawn kid with lazy parents who have told him the team are bad disguise the fact that they are too lazy to take him to team games.
we have considerable trade and leverage with the eu. we have every possible reason to have as much or more voice in what happens in it than france and perhaps germany. but instead of an engaging assertive, more or less intelligent merkle we have blair and cameron and may - self serving liars fronting interests that really are not national.

 

[Fingers]

Heseltine said that our foreign policy has always been based on three aspects: the Common Wealth, the special relationship with the USA and the EU. We squandered the North Sea oil windfall, spent it on consumption rather than invested it.
I guess since joining we relied more and more on the EU for economic growth and are now too weak to leave.

Portillo would say the opposite.

I guess Heseltine is the one to blame if he’s right. It was his policies after all.

Portillo would be to blame if he’s right as he thinks we can leave and make a success of it.

No one really knows though. We’ve been spoon fed lies after lies on the EU by the antis who were in power-and we’ve also seen squandering , uncontrolled borders and laws that go against us by the believers who were in power.

I’d still like out on the balance of it though. We are never going to join the Euro. We will never be a tier one country. What’s the point?

Hammer out a trade agreement. Do the security and then arts, science and all that rest that follows.

 

[Fingers]

it really is a false dichotomy. we don't have to be the fat kid. it does not have to be federation on the eu's terms. we are more like a withdrawn kid with lazy parents who have told him the team are bad disguise the fact that they are too lazy to take him to team games.
we have considerable trade and leverage with the eu. we have every possible reason to have as much or more voice in what happens in it than france and perhaps germany. but instead of an engaging assertive, more or less intelligent merkle we have blair and cameron and may - self serving liars fronting interests that really are not national.

But what if we think the EU isn’t for us? What if we can’t be bothered because we simply don’t believe in this house of cards?

It’s evolved in my lifetime to a very corrupt institution, and this is in its infancy. Maastricht, Lisburn, Rome were mere eye blinks away in terms of forming governments. But it’s still an archaic mess. We should be in the flush of youth. Everything going well. It really isn’t.

I honestly think we can get the same terms but with a little bit extra money. But you know what. That’s cheap at nearly double the price when you consider what it opens up worldwide. We can be best friends not kissing cousins.

Financially we have the best deal in the EU so that if we get near the same terms for a little bit more euros it is a bargain.

 

[Woosh]

Portillo would be to blame if he’s right as he thinks we can leave and make a success of it.

He is one of those rare politicians who have already achieved TV personality status.
Portillo is quite subtle on brexit.
Not so long ago, he was the symbol of Euroscepticism and MT's heir apparent then got cold feet.

 

[Fingers]

Nice to see May isn’t trying to buy her Brexit deal with honours.

John Redwood is now a knight of the realm and another ERG member plus the labour chief whip!

Desperate, difficult woman. More like a limpet who needs prising out of Downing Street.

 

[Woosh]

I’d still like out on the balance of it though. We are never going to join the Euro. We will never be a tier one country. What’s the point?

Hammer out a trade agreement. Do the security and then arts, science and all that rest that follows.

the problem is our economic health is tied to our foreign policy. Leaving the EU means we will need more support from and will become dependent on the other two pillars the USA and the Common Wealth.

 

[Fingers]

He is one of those rare politicians who have already achieved TV personality status.
Portillo is quite subtle on brexit.
Not so long ago, he was the symbol of Euroscepticism and MT's heir apparent then got cold feet.

He’s as subtle as a brick re Brexit.

The only reason he never made it to number 10 was because of the pictures of him in the Mirrors vault in bed with his 18 year boyfriend.

He wanted the gig bad. It wasn’t cold feet. It was because he was anti gay but was an uphill gardener.

Once he admitted this he was forgiven by the media and became the ‘soft’ ‘approachable’ face of the nasty Tories and the saint of men who wear red trousers and bray.

 

[Fingers]

the problem is our economic health is tied to our foreign policy. Leaving the EU means we will need more support from and will become dependent on the other two pillars the USA and the Common Wealth.

Good.

Let’s get out there and tie up some deals.

I’m not one for tit for tat but we can really hurt the EU if they do maintain their policy of punishment.

The city isn’t going away. It’s not going to Frankfurt. The EU needs our excellence in shifting and hiding money. It needs us to buy its products.

The laughable Irish stance needs to get a bit of a kicking. Metaphorically of course. My wife is Irish but their government needs to understand how this goes.

The Italians, Portuguese, Danes, Austrians and many more who have not been natural allies have done better in helping to make this exit more smooth.

 

[Woosh]

Good.

Let’s get out there and tie up some deals.

small deals are easy but large deals are not.

 

[Fingers]

small deals are easy but large deals are not.

Things can be done in principal. They usually stick.

I've been in business. I've done my best deals. Pure Skeleton deals at the last minute.

They are generally right. A few tweaks once wrinkles happen. But. And it maybe akward. But. They generally work.

 

[Fingers]

We are not a third nation as some on here think.

 

[Danidl]

Good.

Let’s get out there and tie up some deals.

I’m not one for tit for tat but we can really hurt the EU if they do maintain their policy of punishment.

The city isn’t going away. It’s not going to Frankfurt. The EU needs our excellence in shifting and hiding money. It needs us to buy its products.

The laughable Irish stance needs to get a bit of a kicking. Metaphorically of course. My wife is Irish but their government needs to understand how this goes.

The Italians, Portuguese, Danes, Austrians and many more who have not been natural allies have done better in helping to make this exit more smooth.

Fingers you are deluded.

 

[Fingers]

Fingers you are deluded.

And your hatred of the English precludes you from sensible debate.

 

[Danidl]

And your hatred of the English precludes you from sensible debate.

You are still deluded. I do not hate the English.. they invented Rugby.

 

[Fingers]

You are still deluded. I do not hate the English.. they invented Rugby.

Posh boys making games up to make the conquered feel good when they beat their oppressors. Cricket was our best one.

Lol. Text book acceptance. Stockholm syndrome.

You love us really. X

I tell you though. Veradka has pissed us off. You better pray for Mays deal. Giving Redwood a knighthood isn’t going to cut it. We sentient people will not forget. Idiots.

You have royally pissed us off.