Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

No flecc it's you talking rubbish and wriggling to justify your biased stance toward remaining, which if you were truly interested in achieving should have voted for a party wanting to provide your wishes.
Why expect either Tory or Labour to provide you with a remain when they have made commitments to achieve the opposite.
It would be like voting Labour in and then being surprised, or moaning at, the higher taxation committed to in their manifesto. Its actually worse, leave or remain is binary. Obvious, one or the other.
Your stance on this makes no sense. You expect either party to provide an outcome opposite to that stated. Very odd.
Just to remind you, lifted from Labour manifesto.
View attachment 28223

What is wrong with you that you constantly post things at are irrelevant to what I posted, which was this:

"A vote for a party does not indicate agreement with everything that party stands for."

That's a fact and nothing you've replied with is anything to do with that.
.

 

[Danidl]

What's wrong with May's Deal or Remain?

They are the only true alternatives, what we have or the Leaving deal that was negotiated following the referendum decision.

The others are from factional interests like the ERG or new directions, having no part of democracy.
.

I have to agree with flecc on this one. . The UK held a referendum, the only term in it was a reduction in EU engagement. It was narrowly accepted. The narrowness indicated the ambivalence. The HoC choose to interpret this in some fashion and their prime minister then negotiated the best terms,by her terms, she was capable of doing. If her Deal is accepted, then the UK achieves its Brexit,and with a measure of good will on all sides ..UK and EU.
Some people within and without of HoC have devised and revised their own interpretation of what a reduction in EU engagement means. But they are still just a collection of independent opinions...some from very vested interests.
If the HoC votes for the Deal , then your PM has fulfilled the mandate she accepted.
If the HoC votes down the Deal, then they have two logical alternatives. Crash out or resind Article 50.
It would be an Anarchist who would welcome Crash out.
Recinding Article 50 is the only logical alternative after failing to pass the Deal. But the EU will be suspicious and circumspect about engaging with the UK in any joint venture. The only ways of bypassing that suspicion, would be passing the Deal and then consulting the British people by means of another referendum.

 

[Fingers]

I have to agree with flecc on this one. . The UK held a referendum, the only term in it was a reduction in EU engagement. It was narrowly accepted. The narrowness indicated the ambivalence. The HoC choose to interpret this in some fashion and their prime minister then negotiated the best terms,by her terms, she was capable of doing. If her Deal is accepted, then the UK achieves its Brexit,and with a measure of good will on all sides ..UK and EU.
Some people within and without of HoC have devised and revised their own interpretation of what a reduction in EU engagement means. But they are still just a collection of independent opinions...some from very vested interests.
If the HoC votes for the Deal , then your PM has fulfilled the mandate she accepted.
If the HoC votes down the Deal, then they have two logical alternatives. Crash out or resind Article 50.
It would be an Anarchist who would welcome Crash out.
Recinding Article 50 is the only logical alternative after failing to pass the Deal. But the EU will be suspicious and circumspect about engaging with the UK in any joint venture. The only ways of bypassing that suspicion, would be passing the Deal and then consulting the British people by means of another referendum.

It’s not crashing out. It’s a managed departure.

You shouldn’t use such incendiary words.

 

[tommie]

It would be an Anarchist who would welcome Crash out.

No we wont be Crashing out,
we will be CASHing out,
£39bn won`t be going to prop up lost causes like Greece, Ireland etc.

Mays present deal wont go through and we will default to WTO ts&cs,
the EU will come crawling and the unfortunate Irish folk will be left finger in mouth wondering why we trusted our masters in Brussels.

 

[oyster]

It’s not crashing out. It’s a managed departure.

You shouldn’t use such incendiary words.

Perhaps you would explain what the term "managed departure" actually means? In detail.

And who is doing the managing? So much would appear to be in the hands of others than the UK government.

 

[Danidl]

It’s not crashing out. It’s a managed departure.

You shouldn’t use such incendiary words.

No .. those be weasel words. The Deal is a managed departure. For something to be managed, there needs to be control and a manager and in this case agreements... Sorry Crash out means Crashing out.

 

[tommie]

Sorry Crash out means Crashng out.

Oh No, No Dan it will be Cashing out.......we will be Cashing out,

now your economy may be Crashing out, but thats what you get for listening to the advice of gangsters

 

[Danidl]

No we wont be Crashing out,
we will be CASHing out,
£39bn won`t be going to prop up lost causes like Greece, Ireland etc.

Mays present deal wont go through and we will default to WTO ts&cs,
the EU will come crawling and the unfortunate Irish folk will be left finger in mouth wondering why we trusted our masters in Brussels.

And when the EU does NOT come crawling?. What is your plan B?
The arrogance masked here is breathtaking,and a little bit of me is hoping you collectively will enjoy the hubris. I know ! It is uncharitable of me, but I am still only human.
You do appreciate that the 39 billion ,only covers the NI subvention from Westminster for 4 years?.

 

[Fingers]

And when the EU does NOT come crawling?. What is your plan B?
The arrogance masked here is breathtaking,and a little bit of me is hoping you collectively will enjoy the hubris. I know ! It is uncharitable of me, but I am still only human.
You do appreciate that the 39 billion ,only covers the NI subvention from Westminster for 4 years?.

They will come crawling. Ireland will beg them to. Literally beg.

When will you ever learn?

 

[Fingers]

Perhaps you would explain what the term "managed departure" actually means? In detail.

And who is doing the managing? So much would appear to be in the hands of others than the UK government.

I’m not really a details man tbh.

I’m the bigger picture guy. But broad strokes we leave and deal with any wrinkles on a case by case basis as they occur

It’s amazing how each country wants what we want. Trade, movement etc.It will blow your mind.

 

[Danidl]

They will come crawling. Ireland will beg them to. Literally beg.

When will you ever learn?

Well I suppose I am as past learning as you are in understanding.

 

[Danidl]

I’m not really a details man tbh.

I’m the bigger picture guy. But broad strokes we leave and deal with any wrinkles on a case by case basis as they occur

It’s amazing how each country wants what we want. Trade, movement etc.It will blow your mind.

"Bigger picture guy".. yep that could sum it up. Unfortunately to make progress you have to sweat the details.

 

[Fingers]

"Bigger picture guy".. yep that could sum it up. Unfortunately to make progress you have to sweat the details.

Leave that to the egg heads. I’m a creative. No time to sweat the boring stuff.

 

[Fingers]

And when the EU does NOT come crawling?. What is your plan B?
The arrogance masked here is breathtaking,and a little bit of me is hoping you collectively will enjoy the hubris. I know ! It is uncharitable of me, but I am still only human.
You do appreciate that the 39 billion ,only covers the NI subvention from Westminster for 4 years?.

You’re the guy that said planes wouldn’t fly! You are really said that. Until it was pointed out even Russia and North Korea have permission to let their aircraft use EU airspace.

This is also the guy that said on quite a few occasions how he would enjoy it if we suffered utter destruction. Would serve us right etc.

Let’s get it right Dan. Your a perv, a voyeur. You’ve also got a chip on your shoulder that’s ten times the size of your schmeckle. You don’t live here but want us to fail. What’s all that about?

Admit. You get your jollies out of others misery and this is the biggest show in town now. You must be raw.

Can’t wait to see you slide away once the bunting goes up and Brexit is declared our greatest Victory since Waterloo.

Huzzzzah!

 

[Zlatan]

What is wrong with you that you constantly post things at are irrelevant to what I posted, which was this:

"A vote for a party does not indicate agreement with everything that party stands for."

That's a fact and nothing you've replied with is anything to do with that.
.

Of course it does on prime things like leave or remain.
It's a principal founding belief at the moment. It's part of the parties identity. You are arguing not about taxing certain groups or bringing in educational reform. It was the major issue on voters minds. The major issue of the last GE. You voted to win a tactical battle with no thought of strategic outcome. Arguing parties don't uphold their pledges is completely missing point.
The whole GE could have been fought around remain/leave. Your voting Labour and now saying "Well they don't have to follow manifesto anyway" is wrong flecc.
Parties have a duty to try and achieve manifestos. You supported leave by supporting Labour. Fact. How are politicians now supposed to know you don't want to leave. Your vote communicates your wishes through supporting what's put over in manifesto.
Yes, May will have here detractors at moment because she, s said some of their manifesto pledges are put on hold.
You were proud of fact Labour gained seats, how do you know that was not due to fact their manifesto was to leave. Its fundamental to our system. You are simply being obtuse over issue to justify your odd stance.
Anybody who voted for any Labour or Tory candidate can not now grumble when we crash out of EU.
By all means you can grumble at Corbyn for not representing your wishes at last GE (I was amazed you were so content at him not doing).
You haven't got a leg to stand on moaning at anything about leaving if you voted Labour (or obviously Tory) at last election. You asked to leave.
That is exactly how system works.

Just think on here what you are saying flecc.
Labour have Leave EU as a pledge, directive or wish in their manifesto.
You vote for Labour.
A few months later you are saying we should not be leaving and want a second referendum. I said at time that election was the second referendum.
Its too late. We are leaving. You should have lobbied Corbyn to change manifesto and voted Lib Dem if leave was not removed. You did neither and supported Labour on other issues but indirectly telling Labour you wanted to leave. Fact
My last comment on this.

 

[oyster]

I’m not really a details man tbh.

I’m the bigger picture guy. But broad strokes we leave and deal with any wrinkles on a case by case basis as they occur

It’s amazing how each country wants what we want. Trade, movement etc.It will blow your mind.

You used the term - just explain what you mean by it.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

 

[Fingers]

Of course it does on prime things like leave or remain.
It's a principal founding belief at the moment. It's part of the parties identity. You are arguing not about taxing certain groups or bringing in educational reform. It was the major issue on voters minds. The major issue of the last GE. You voted to win a tactical battle with no thought of strategic outcome. Arguing parties don't uphold their pledges is completely missing point.
The whole GE could have been fought around remain/leave. Your voting Labour and now saying "Well they don't have to follow manifesto anyway" is wrong flecc.
Parties have a duty to try and achieve manifestos. You supported leave by supporting Labour. Fact. How are politicians now supposed to know you don't want to leave. Your vote communicates your wishes through supporting what's put over in manifesto.
Yes, May will have here detractors at moment because she, s said some of their manifesto pledges are put on hold.
You were proud of fact Labour gained seats, how do you know that was not due to fact their manifesto was to leave. Its fundamental to our system. You are simply being obtuse over issue to justify your odd stance.
Anybody who voted for any Labour or Tory candidate can not now grumble when we crash out of EU.
By all means you can grumble at Corbyn for not representing your wishes at last GE (I was amazed you were so content at him not doing).
You haven't got a leg to stand on moaning at anything about leaving if you voted Labour (or obviously Tory) at last election. You asked to leave.
That is exactly how system works.

Just think on here what you are saying flecc.
Labour have Leave EU as a pledge, directive or wish in their manifesto.
You vote for Labour.
A few months later you are saying we should not be leaving and want a second referendum. I said at time that election was the second referendum.
Its too late. We are leaving. You should have lobbied Corbyn to change manifesto and voted Lib Dem if leave was not removed. You did neither and supported Labour on other issues but indirectly telling Labour you wanted to leave. Fact

Indeed. And there is a quite a large movement that is trying to make manifestos a legal document with the leader of the party criminally liable if those promises are not carried without specific reasons such as war, death etc. The big ones.

Parliament has to ratify it though so I won’t be holding my breath but the noose is tightening.

 

[Fingers]

You used the term - just explain what you mean by it.

'When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said, in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less.'

I just did.

Read my post again.

It’s all there in black and white pixel form.

 

[Zlatan]

Indeed. And there is a quite a large movement that is trying to make manifestos a legal document with the leader of the party criminally liable if those promises are not carried without specific reasons such as war, death etc. The big ones.

Parliament has to ratify it though so I won’t be holding my breath but the noose is tightening.

Totally agreed and if we really had a democracy parliament would either endorse May's deal or crash out. Let's face it over 80% of them are there with leave in their own parties manifestos. I, m not sure how constitutionally they can do any other. If they don't it makes a mockery of entire system.

 

[Fingers]

Totally agreed and if we really had a democracy parliament would either endorse May's deal or crash out. Let's face it over 80% of them are there with leave in their own parties manifestos. I, m not sure how constitutionally they can do any other. If they don't it makes a mockery of entire system.

Let’s be honest the system is a mockery.

One of the reasons I voted out was to give these self serving pigs a bloody nose.

Bit like @OxygenJames on that score. I love a bit of anarchy. Even if it is ‘managed’