Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Agreed...but isn't idea to improve situation...???

I doubt that any action can turn out other than as damage limitation, disregarding Brexit itself the whole structure of Government , the trust of the Public, and indeed our trustworthiness, and reputation for sane and stable decision making in the World is diminished.

The Conservatives themselves were bad enough, but the scum and duplicity of the Leave campaigners set a new low, and even that was exceeded by the ERG

And Corbyn and the Labour party resemble the cast of "Those Magnificent Men in their Flying Machines" with Corbyn taking the part of the Inventor (Tony Hancock) whose plane flew backwards to Glasgow instead of Paris

 

[anotherkiwi]

http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/europpblog/2015/10/19/asking-the-public-twice-why-do-voters-change-their-minds-in-second-referendums-on-eu-treaties/#Author
No, I, m not thick.. Thanks.
Read the article.
View attachment 28137

It wasn't the same treaty the second time. Clauses people didn't like were removed or modified. The name of the treaty stayed the same.

 

[Danidl]

N

And it has...
And suggesting so certainly does not justify your insult.
Your apologies would be gracefully received.
I had you as rather more cultured than Tom. Perhaps not.

The error to which I was referring is that the EU has never offered or presented referendums or referenda. You have been presenting opinions and reading postings on this site for so long now, that you are either slow of learning... Which I doubt, or you are being deliberately obtruse.
So for those slow on the uptake,.. the EU via its Commission generates Treaties. The Treaties are developed in torturous democratic discussions with the member states. Any country is entitled to accept or reject them. Some countries , Ireland in particular, has very stringent Constitutional issues, and requires an major change to be subject to its own referendum... Not an EU mandated referendum.

 

[oldgroaner]

Agreed...but isn't idea to improve situation...???

I'm sure it WAS but now that lofty ideal has fallen by the wayside

 

[OxygenJames]

Ok we have a referendum about going to war...in the meantime we settle our differences and peace is declared....too late mate we voted to go to war and war it must be...Farage pulls the first trigger.

 

[OxygenJames]

Yes, I agree. Can't see them having balls to do anything else... They darent go no deal and darent put a stop to Brexit... Kings of middle of road mediocrity.?? Neither one thing or other.. Not in and not out... Like the result really...

But if they don't get the DUP on board - and if Labour hold - then there just aren't the numbers to get the deal through.

 

[gray198]

Is all this her fault? Yes,she has made some mistakes but the real fault lies with the ERG-that bunch of nutters lead by Rees-Mogg seem determined to Brexit whatever the damage caused,they even are prepared to see the demise of their own party just to Brexit.
She should teach the lot of them a lesson and put a vote into parliament cancelling Art 50,without a referendum,hehe!!!
KudosDave

seems to me that the people to blame are the politicians who voted overwhelmingly to give the choice to the people (peoples vote) and have then spent the last 2 years reneging on what they said, when they didn't get the result they expected. In a way the only people who are truly honouring the referendum are the ERG, who truly want us to leave the EU. So the blame for the mess we are in lies solely with those who have sold us down the river. Shame on the lot

 

[gray198]

That is totally untrue...look at the support on Question Time when the green party MP said we should have another vote....the support for Leavers was poor.

I hope you don't think that QT presents an unbiased viewpoint. Last night there were four women who were all remainers and one male leaver. Quite well balanced

 

[oldgroaner]

View attachment 28138

And what is happening now? so many different groups in and out of Government are claiming that their agenda is what the public who voted leave really wanted.
They are all trying desperately to sell their idea to the Public to be able to inflluence and quote polls that they see as amounting to a mandate, and avoid personal responsibility, , a tradition set by Boris the day after the referendum, by putting it back onto Public opinion.

Even the ERG don't seem to know what they want anymore
Each little group must be thinking
If we only we could employ a company like Cambridge Analytica to bamboozle the public into making the desired choice eh?
You can bet May and co have looked into it!

 

[oldgroaner]

seems to me that the people to blame are the politicians who voted overwhelmingly to give the choice to the people (peoples vote) and have then spent the last 2 years reneging on what they said, when they didn't get the result they expected. In a way the only people who are truly honouring the referendum are the ERG, who truly want us to leave the EU. So the blame for the mess we are in lies solely with those who have sold us down the river. Shame on the lot

The ERG only truly want us to leave the EU to protect Offshore Tax swindles, they have been thoroughly discredited by association with old slash and Burn Minford who would devastate industry with his crazy ideas

 

[oldgroaner]

I hope you don't think that QT presents an unbiased viewpoint. Last night there were four women who were all remainers and one male leaver. Quite well balanced

That's because they got rumbled with bogus previous "Guests"

 

[oldgroaner]

But if they don't get the DUP on board - and if Labour hold - then there just aren't the numbers to get the deal through.

Grease the old palms with silver is all that takes

 

[Kudoscycles]

I hope you don't think that QT presents an unbiased viewpoint. Last night there were four women who were all remainers and one male leaver. Quite well balanced

I wasn’t referring to the panel,my comments were about the audience....Southwark is a very balanced society.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

They are flogging a dead horse in the Express, and even borrowing inspiration for the French Yellow vest protesters
"
'We are NOT Europeans!' Furious Brexiteer warns of 'REVOLUTION' if May fails to deliver
SEETHING Brexiteers have taken to the streets of London on Friday to demand Theresa May ditch her proposed Brexit divorce deal, warning refusing to do so could result in Britons "revolting" to see their demands met.
A group of protesters sporting yellow vests swarmed major bridges across London to voice their discontent with the Brexit withdrawal deal the Prime Minister has negotiated with the European Union. One particularly frustrated protestor warned Theresa May to expect "a revolution" from the British people if the demands of the 2016 EU referendum are not delivered. He also claimed Brexiteers would prefer leaving the bloc without a deal rather than continue having Brussels "pillage" the UK.
"The London protesters were spotted wearing Yellow Vests to honour the Gilets Jaune campaign objecting to the presidency of French leader Emmanuel Macron since November."

I'm surprised the vests didn't carry "Sponsored by the ERG" on the back

And this is clearly intended to incite civil unrest
"
The "yellow vest" protests erupted out of nowhere on Nov. 17, when nearly 300,000 demonstrators nationwide took to the streets to denounce high living costs and a fuel tax.

Roadblocks around the country and violent clashes in central Paris have already taken their toll on the economy."

So despite only a paltry fifty or so turning up and preventing an emergency response ambulance answering a call, they are hoping road blocks and violent clashes are they?

And Another participant in the 'yellow vest' Brexit protest today was Tim Scott, who was a short-term leader of Pegida UK - started by Tommy Robinson and Anne Marie Waters.

The same group went on to bother Tower Bridge - clearly inspired by Extinction Rebellion tactics to cause disruption

So even before Brexit actually happened we have would be firebrands trying to stir up public discord.
Woe betide us after we leave and reality starts hitting the public.

 

[oldgroaner]

And what is happening now? so many different groups in and out of Government are claiming that their agenda is what the public who voted leave really wanted.
They are all trying desperately to sell their idea to the Public to be able to inflluence and quote polls that they see as amounting to a mandate, and avoid personal responsibility, , a tradition set by Boris the day after the referendum, by putting it back onto Public opinion.

Even the ERG don't seem to know what they want anymore
Each little group must be thinking
If we only we could employ a company like Cambridge Analytica to bamboozle the public into making the desired choice eh?
You can bet May and co have looked into it!

And here's something to add a novel twist.
6 staff from bankrupt SCL Group/Cambridge Analytica/Anaxi Solutions are back working together with Gov contractor: Integrated Systems Inc. (ISI)
They include:
Josh Weerasinghe
Chris Dailey
John Burkhardt
Kerri Weir
Rob Mennell
Chris Naler

Hmm "Integrated Systems Inc. (ISI) " a company worth watching....

 

[oldtom]

It's the weekend so let's take stock of the recent events connected to 'Brexit'.

1) People who campaigned to end free movement are now outraged that movement will no longer be free.

2) On May's most recent trip to Brussels, she was asked by the
the EU team: What do you actually want, Britain?
She replied: Brexit means Brexit.

3) David Schneider has produced another analogy in an attempt to get the thickest of the thick to understand what 'Brexit' really means:


That might prove to be still too deep for some of the 'Brexidiots' I have encountered.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

to understand what 'Brexit' really means:

Enoch Powell lamented that the laws introduced by common market membership meant the British would soon “have nothing left to die for … Patriotism is to have a nation to die for, and to be glad to die for it – all the days of one’s life.”

In Heroic Failure, O’Toole offers a central, sexual metaphor for the fall, in which England alternately dominates and submits: “a masochistic desire to seek out humiliation combined with a grandiose sense that such humiliation was an outrage against an exceptionally fine people”. This is a little complicated, and involves England imagining itself both as an imperial power (in the world) and a colony (in the EU), and victorious (in the second world war) as well as vanquished (by the economic performance of its ravaged European neighbours in the years since).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/dec/15/england-brexit-self-pity-writers-country

 

[anotherkiwi]

Google just sent me an e-mail telling me that Google Ireland would be taking over operations for the EU in the coming weeks.

What are the the 7,000 employees in the new £1 billion Kings Cross office building going to be doing?

 

[Woosh]

Google just sent me an e-mail telling me that Google Ireland would be taking over operations for the EU in the coming weeks.

What are the the 7,000 employees in the new £1 billion Kings Cross office building going to be doing?

I think they are going to keep programmers there.

 

[gray198]

i see robdon has got his dislike button working overtime on this thread. Very easy to be critical of other posters without saying anything yourself. Come on robdon get out of the shadows and post something that others can comment on. I don't think you actually exist. Maybe you did at one time . A post would maybe show us you are real