Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Fascinating!
BBC Economics Editor and former Observer Political Editor, Kamal Ahmed, emailed all BBC correspondents last week about future coverage of Brexit and the angle they should take

What happened to the Brexit Broadcasting Corporation ?

 

[gray198]

I would not be surprised to find that many people consider a government in contempt of parliament should itself be held in contempt. That is, regardless the views of so-called constitutional experts, we the people might be rather upset at this.

Didn't they used to roll out Norman Panayea St John-Stevas, Baron St John of Fawsley to witter on about such issues?

I think all MP s should be held in contempt of the electorate

 

[oldgroaner]

I think all MP s should be held in contempt of the electorate

indeed!

 

[flecc]

The function of a written constitution is that it limits the powers the state can take from the people.

Which of course is why our establishment have always rejected suggestions that we should have a written constitution. Being able to freely abuse the people suits them just fine, and it's why they also want to get rid of the Human Rights Act and the power of the ECJ.

Yet ordinary people voted Leave, reducing what little protection they have to none. Almost beyond belief.
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[flecc]

When you hear the trope "The People have spoken" remember this is the reality.

It was in act a marginal factional victory and an uninformed decision at best, polluted by illegal activities, finance and techniques by the Leave campaign
This corrupt result should be either re-run or cancelled out of hand as the result is in fact in breach of the law.

Even if all the "Can't Vote" are left out, those who voted leave are still only 38% of the electorate, so 62% have not opted to leave the EU.

Whatever way one looks at this, Leave is not the will of the people.
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[Fingers]

Even if all the "Can't Vote" are left out, those who voted leave are still only 38% of the electorate, so 62% have not opted to leave the EU.

Whatever way one looks at this, Leave is not the will of the people.
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Don't be ridiculous.

The rules were quite clear from the start.

You can use whatever project fear, establishment devices and illegal tactics to get your own way after the fact but don't rewrite history.

Remainers suffered a devastating defeat and the establishment got a bloody nose. It's taken your guys two years to regroup and recover from.

The biggest turnout in election history yet it's still not enough for you to accept.

 

[flecc]

I’m pleased to hear that the tactic is working. That’s good news.

Don't worry, the officer will not punished, the threat of that is just for public consumption to satisy the naysayers. There's been a long history of threats to punish officers of the Met fo killing, including some court cases in the worst cases, but they have never succeeded.

That include the worst case of all when an officer shot dead at point blank range someone he wanted to question who refused to get out of his parked car and was manouvering it out from between two cars to get away.

Although known, the man who he merely wanted to question was unarmed with no record of ever using any form of weapon or violence. The officer was alongside the car driver's window but about three feet out. He claimed he was in fear of being run over, apparently claiming to believe cars could drive sideways!

The way he fired his pistol at arms length directly into the side of the mans brain for failure to stop and no other reason was undoubtedly cold blooded murder, but he was found not guilty by a majority of what had to be a fixed jury.

So you need have no fear that the officer who tipped a guilty person off a scooter without any permanent harm being done will be punished.
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[flecc]

Don't be ridiculous.
The biggest turnout in election history yet it's still not enough for you to accept.

I'm not being ridiculous, almost half of that turnout was to Remain. Its total turnout size is immaterial since turnouts do not elect, majorities do.

What matters is that at 38% far below half the electorate voted to leave, so leaving is emphatically not the will of the people. Those who claim it is are idiots who now know they are wrong, which is why they are scared of a second vote, knowing they would lose by a resounding margin.
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[Fingers]

I'm not being ridiculous, almost half of that turnout was to Remain. Its total turnout size is immaterial since turnouts do not elect, majorities do.

What matters is that at 38% far below half the electorate voted to leave, so leaving is emphatically not the will of the people. Those who claim it is are idiots who now know they are wrong, which is why they are scared of a second vote, knowing they would lose by a resounding margin.
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Calling the victors idiots won't change the result. May got elected on what 27% of total electorate?

You can't change the rules because it doesn't suit you. Although I would be in favour of PRP.

The remains devastating loss was a simple yes or no. You lost by a clear majority.

 

[Zlatan]

I'm not being ridiculous, almost half of that turnout was to Remain. Its total turnout size is immaterial since turnouts do not elect, majorities do.

What matters is that at 38% far below half the electorate voted to leave, so leaving is emphatically not the will of the people. Those who claim it is are idiots who now know they are wrong, which is why they are scared of a second vote, knowing they would lose by a resounding margin.
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No flecc they are not afraid of a second vote.
Last time the vote was leave and irrespective of how you look at it that's how it works. But 2 years later some might have changed their minds but like many things in life its sadly too late.
I believe quite strongly a second vote would damage any faith we have in democracy, what should happen is government govern,, and if they think leaving is so bad then let them decide and tell us. Asking again is a get out, passing the book. A leader leading and making a decision against the result would at least show we have a leader.
We cant have ref 2.
The government continually going for a referendum until they get result they want is a very EU concept. It shows weakness, conptempt for Voters and damages democracy. The government now making a decision makes referendum pointless but we knew that anyway.

 

[anotherkiwi]

2% has never been "vast" in anybody's book...

 

[Fingers]

2% has never been "vast" in anybody's book...

I think this is what people cant get their head around.

The rules were clear. With all the resources the establishment had to hand they couldn't get it over the line.

I promise you had it been 2% the other way the conversation would be over. Sure you would get the fundamentalists, note mentalists, would never give up but the argument would be over.

I wouldn't be bitching and whining about it like little girls. I would accept and so would the vast, and it was vast, 17.4 million people also.

The question was asked. The answer was given.

Move on.

 

[flecc]

You can't change the rules because it doesn't suit you.

I'm not changing th rules and not even asking to change the rules.

I'm simply pointing out the unassailable fact that 38% of the electorate do not express the will of the people, so I object to that being said.

It is a lie.

38% expressed the will of a little over a third of the electorate and a little over a quarter of the people at under 27% of the population.
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[Zlatan]

2% has never been "vast" in anybody's book...

It's a relative term... But irrelevant.. Leave it should be. That's how it works. You are questioning democracy not Brexit. (well some are)
Look at the figures that put governments in power. Unfortunately the loosers are virtually unrepresented but until we adopt PR it will always be case.. and PR comes with its own issues. Ask Italy.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think this is what people cant get their head around.

The rules were clear. With all the resources the establishment had to hand they couldn't get it over the line.

I promise you had it been 2% the other way the conversation would be over. Sure you would get the fundamentalists, note mentalists, would never give up but the argument would be over.

I wouldn't be bitching and whining about it like little girls. I would accept and so would the vast, and it was vast, 17.4 million people also.

The question was asked. The answer was given.

Move on.

Are you forgetting what Farage said? This result the other way round would be unfinished business
Only a 60/40 victory would end the matter

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

I believe quite strongly a second vote would damage any faith we have in democracy,

So you don't believe in five yearly general elections. Once the people have spoken it's final?
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[Zlatan]

I'm not changing th rules and not even asking to change the rules.

I'm simply pointing out the unassailable fact that 38% of the electorate do not express the will of the people, so I object to that being said. It is a lie.

38% express the will of a little over a third of the electorate and a little over a quarter of the people at under 27% of the population.
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That's pedantics tho flecc. Yes, it might not be the whole people but in our system the statement holds true. It was the will of the voting public 2 years ago. Fact.

 

[Zlatan]

So you don't believe in five yearly general elections. Once the people have spoken it's final?
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Yes, but when we vote we know its for 5 years. When we voted on this we knew it was definitive. Well thought so. Perhaps we should vote on it every 5 years then flecc.

 

[flecc]

That's pedantics tho flecc. Yes, it might not be the whole people but in our system the statement holds true. It was the will of the voting public 2 years ago. Fact.

No it was not even the will of the voting public, 38%, remember?
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[Zlatan]

Are you forgetting what Farage said? This result the other way round would be unfinished business
Only a 60/40 victory would end the matter

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

That meant continued campaigning not claiming vote was rigged, undemocratic, etc etc. Getting rid of Farage is surely a benefit even for you remainers.