Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

This badge illustrates exactly the position adopted by the 'Brexit' proponents and all those who believe that being British makes the UK superior to all other nationalities:


What kind of democracy is that?

Tom

 

[flecc]

I disagree.
QT's format is to present debates in a politically correct manner.
There is a tendency in D. Dimbleby to treat the government with leniency, that was and still is equally true with either conservative or the last Labour government, Dimbleby will treat all panelists with leniency.

I'm afraid that's not disagreeing with Tom. David Dimbleby's pro establishment stance is inherently conservative and the last "labour" government was in fact New Labour and a form of conservatism, supporting and adding to Tory policies.

If you want to look for prejudice, look no further than Andrew Neil's and Michael Portillo's This Week.

Agreed.
.

 

[oyster]

I see JRM has said:

The arch-Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg called on the prime minister to change tack, throwing his weight behind a plan to leave without a deal next March but pay £18bn and follow EU rules so the UK could negotiate as a “third country” with Brussels.


“It is time for convinced Brexiters like me to compromise. So, at this late hour in the negotiations, we would like to make a new, generous offer to break the deadlock, to achieve a ‘no deal plus’. It would cost us money but it would finally dispel the ‘crash out’ Project Fear nightmare scenarios.”

Of course, it seems implicit that there really are/were nightmare scenarios otherwise why the need to compromise?

 

[oldtom]

On this poignant day, I remember that Harry Patch said this a few years ago about how the political class abused ordinary people through their warmongering that resulted (every time) in the deaths of hundreds of thousands, sometimes multi-millions of ordinary people, both those in uniform and civilians:



In 2108 UK, that political class is still operating to its own agenda, protecting its and the establishment's own interests, disregarding the ordinary people.

A referendum on any deal to leave the EU should be the bare minimum before crucifying ordinary British subjects on the alter of continuing wealth expansion for the already stinking rich royals, their aristocracy and other wealthy supporters. Now why is that a bad idea?

Tom

 

[oldtom]

“It is time for convinced Brexiters like me to compromise.

Are we supposed to be grateful? Anything short of rejecting 'Brexit' in any shape or form is akin to thanking one's torturer for only chopping off one arm instead of both.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

I see JRM has said:

The arch-Brexiter Jacob Rees-Mogg called on the prime minister to change tack, throwing his weight behind a plan to leave without a deal next March but pay £18bn and follow EU rules so the UK could negotiate as a “third country” with Brussels.


“It is time for convinced Brexiters like me to compromise. So, at this late hour in the negotiations, we would like to make a new, generous offer to break the deadlock, to achieve a ‘no deal plus’. It would cost us money but it would finally dispel the ‘crash out’ Project Fear nightmare scenarios.”

Of course, it seems implicit that there really are/were nightmare scenarios otherwise why the need to compromise?

If that man grew another Brain
It would be lonely

 

[oyster]

Are we supposed to be grateful? Anything short of rejecting 'Brexit in any shape or form is akin to thanking one's torturer for only chopping off one arm instead of both.

Tom

It is extremely hard to imagine JRM doing anything that was actually generous or in the least not putting self-interest right at the top.

 

[oldgroaner]

Are we supposed to be grateful? Anything short of rejecting 'Brexit in any shape or form is akin to thanking one's torturer for only chopping off one arm instead of both.

Tom

The idiot who made this remark
"“It is time for convinced Brexiters like me to compromise.

What he should have said

It is time for convinced Brexiters like me to leave subjects they are inadequately equipped by nature to comprehend. because their brains run on cunning and have the moral compass of hungry vermin.

To those whose brains employ intelligence. and qualify as Homo Sapiens.

 

[oldtom]

More 'Brexit' news here:

brexiteers-livid-bloody-fight-bruges-group-conference-brexit

Even now, they refuse to accept responsibility for the destabilisation of the UK's economy and currency devaluation.

It's way past time to re-do the silly referendum.

Tom

 

[wheeler]

Have you seen this man?

I saw a bloke that looked just like him wearing an anorak at the Cenotaph this morning.

wheeler

 

[oyster]

The man speaks some truths:

Welsh ports not ready for no-deal Brexit, says Carwyn Jones

Asked if Welsh ports are ready to deal with a potential breakdown in the Brexit talks leading, Carwyn Jones said: "No, I don't think any port is ready to deal with that situation yet.

"We have been looking at it and we're developing plans on how to cope but the reality is of course, probably not border checks in terms of passports, but there might be customs checks that means more lorries would be checked of course, it means more delays potentially."

"That has an effect on the ports, which we control and has an affect on the roads, which we control," he added.

Ahead of the BIC meeting, Carwyn Jones said the UK government's "shambolic handling" of Brexit negotiations is to blame for potential job losses, following German automobile company Schaeffler's decision this week to close its Llanelli plant.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-46144392

Raab will probably be suggesting that they use different ports like Vladivostok, after all it has spare capacity.

 

[oldgroaner]

An article in the Guardian
Brexiteers are livid – they’ll not go down without a bloody fight

Mary Dejevsky

For a change there was a reader comments section

CassiusClay
18m ago

5 6
Portraying the 17.5 million + as a small bunch of fanatical right wing loonies , as usual, ignores the fact that the political left have been, and remain, as passionately opposed to the EU as the right. There is a lot of mounting anger on both sides and the consequences of overturning a democratic vote to placate what is essentially a vocal minority of metropolitan Centrists- the AC Grayings, Brian Cox's, James Melville's and Mike Galsworthy's of this world- would have catastrophic consequences. Consequences far greater than any temporary economic blip.

I responded
Your comment here is full of suppositions for instance who exactly is portraying 17.5 million people in the way you describe? actually only you.
Your imagined threat of a serious backlash if Brexit fails to happen is, once again fantasy, not born out by the trifling levels of support Farage and co drummed up, in demonstrations are they?
Why are you afraid of a second referendum ?, after all the first was taken against a background of ignorance as to what was at stake on all sides, and ignoring the level of dishonest dealings on the leave side, if Brexit is such a good idea, the public will endorse it. So you have nothing to lose, do you? and let's remember it was a marginal win after all, and too dangerous a decision to go ahead with without further consideration and approval of the public

 

[oyster]

Anyone see the BBC report about stockpiling for brexit? The cost must be phenomenal and the scale is huge. But, if things do go horribly wrong, will it be enough?

Brexit: Inside warehouse where food is being 'stockpiled'

Its shelves are crammed full of boxes - this is one of the warehouses where the food industry is "stockpiling" in the run-up to Brexit.

Cardiff-based Wild Water, a cold storage firm, said it had run out of room at the site and has rented extra space in Newport, Bristol and Staffordshire,

It has also bought premises in Merthyr Tydfil and is now building a large facility in Aberbargoed in the Rhymney Valley to cope with increased demand.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-wales-46139549/brexit-inside-warehouse-where-food-is-being-stockpiled

 

[oldgroaner]

I saw a bloke that looked just like him wearing an anorak at the Cenotaph this morning.

wheeler

Did you walk up to him and claim your £5?

Just had a thought, did you check the video fame rates?

 

[flecc]

Did you walk up to him and claim your £5?

Just had a thought, did you check the video fame rates?

I doubt younger members will be familiar with Lobby Lud, William Chinn's creation. He seems to be drifting into oblivion before reaching a hundred years old in nine years time.
.

 

[wheeler]

I doubt younger members will be familiar with Lobby Lud, William Chinn's creation. He seems to be drifting into oblivion before reaching a hundred years old in nine years time.
.

Lobey Dosser was more my time.

wheeler

 

[oldgroaner]

The Guardian does close discussions down at the wrong time!
this character posted
"
DafyddRoberts Gerald Bell
20m ago

1 2
Plenty of sneering Remainer abuse on here portraying Brexiters as rich pensioners, fascists, etc. As usual. It's like reading Daily Mail Brexiters but with delusions of moral and intellectual superiority.

And I typed in this response


No abuse from me, was there? so why have you commented in the way you have?
Your response is as you point out, standard Daily Mail Brexiteer fare, and irrelevant, so why didn't you respond to my post in a sensible manner with a reasoned argument?
Tell me, what exactly in my post did you find to contain "sneering" and "delusions of moral and intellectual superiority?"
Could the truth be that you are offended because you can't actually offer a reasoned riposte?

And as I hit the send button this message popped up

"Sorry your comment can not be published as the discussion is now closed for comments. "

DARN IT!!!

 

[oldgroaner]

I doubt younger members will be familiar with Lobby Lud, William Chinn's creation. He seems to be drifting into oblivion before reaching a hundred years old in nine years time.
.

Sorry I suppose that qualified as a gag well and truly past it's sell by date!

 

[oldgroaner]

Lobey Dosser was more my time.

wheeler

That's even worse! an "in" Glaswegian joke... remember we have sassenachs on here wheeler

They'l no be understandin' Dye ken?

 

[flecc]

Lobey Dosser was more my time.

wheeler

For we Sassenachs:

Lobey Dosser link
.