Brexit, for once some facts.

oyster

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They aren't British passports for any of us, as on the title they are for the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. That combination is the nationwide and internationally recognised UK, so they are UK passports:

However they are widely called British passports. Why, even Wiki calls them that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_passport

:)

Even the Daily Mail has "British Passport" around twice as often as "UK Passport".
 
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flecc

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However they are widely called British passports. Why, even Wiki calls them that:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_passport

:)

Even the Daily Mail has "British Passport" around twice as often as "UK Passport".
Quite simply they are all wrong, this has long been a misunderstood subject. To fully understand it's worth fully translating that passport title:

For United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, instead read:

United Kingdom, comprising England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - Passport

In other words a United Kingdom passport covering the four countries of the Crown.

Those four countries are nations having nationalities, English, Scots, Welsh and Irish. In truth there is no such thing as a British nationality since neither Britain nor Great Britain are nations. Both are federations of nations, as is the UK. As witness there are of course no UKians! However, government has wrongly created a false British nationality for foreigners settling here, since they can't be easily allocated to a particular country.
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oyster

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Quite simply they are all wrong, this has long been a misunderstood subject. To fully understand it's worth fully translating that passport title:

For United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, instead read:

United Kingdom, comprising England, Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland - Passport

In other words a United Kingdom passport covering the four countries of the Crown.

Those four countries are nations having nationalities. In truth there is no such thing as a British nationality since neither Britain nor Great Britain are nations. Both are federations of nations, as is the UK. As witness there are of course no UKians! However, government has wrongly created a false British nationality for foreigners settling here, since they can't be easily allocated to a particular country.
.
I agree that is what they are - but still, whatever logic and truth you have on your side, they are colloquially often called British!

However, my original point was really that those in/from NI have exactly the same passports as those from E, W & S.
 
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oldtom

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So, a step too far was the general consensus of the 'Brexidiots' when asked about the prospect of an EU army. 'We're British' and don't want no foreigners in charge of our military people.' seemed to be the simplistic view.

Right, I get that! I don't agree with it; in fact, I believe it would serve our needs better than the historic but ever-changing make-up of British forces but hey! If it is all that important, let's do something else………

uk-46092838

Tom
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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However, my original point was really that those in/from NI have exactly the same passports as those from E, W & S.
Indeed, but they aren't British. Half of the Northern Irish would be very deeply offended at being called British and nearly half of the Scots aren't very keen on that title either, since they weren't even Britons under the Romans.

We are all United Kingdom citizens, of our own countries nationalities and have United Kingdom passports. It says so on the cover and nowhere is there the word British. If only Wiki and the Dail Mail learnt to read English they'd know that too.
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oldgroaner

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These are posters the leave campaign didn't publish widely, they were sent to people identified by the targetted advertising campign

In the full expectation that people they had identified as susceptible would be conned by such rubbish.
 
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Woosh

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These are posters the leave campaign didn't publish widely, they were sent to people identified by the targetted advertising campaign In the full expectation that people they had identified as susceptible would be conned by such rubbish.
I am a little fed up with the politics of fear and division.
I have been watching the US election last night, glad that the democrats have regained the HoR.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
These are posters the leave campaign didn't publish widely, they were sent to people identified by the targetted advertising campign in the full expectation that people they had identified as susceptible would be conned by such rubbish.
They knew exactly what they were doing! It was an appeal to the base instincts of the underclasses in British society and all the armchair warriors declared themselves ready for battle, Thomas Mair being particularly inspired by the fascists with their hate-filled dialogue that has seen thousands of nurses and hospital ancillary staff depart the UK with their families.

People need to understand how foreign nationals living and working in the UK felt after Jo Cox MP was brutally murdered on the streets of her constituency - they had to suddenly consider that if the hate-mongers could bring about the death of a British MP, what future did they have in a UK with evil, opportunist fascists holding sway over 17 million people.

As a result, although we haven't even got as far as 'Brexit' yet, if you happen to live in Essex, don't get cancer as you may find you have a long wait for chemo and possibly a long way to travel just to get it!

Tom
 
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oldgroaner

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Oh Dear!
this from Bloomberg
"
A $240-Billion-a-Day Market Is Leaving London Ahead of Brexit
By
Will Hadfield
6 November 2018, 16:36 GMT Updated on 7 November 2018, 08:59 GMT
  • Europe’s biggest repo trading venue is moving to Amsterdam
  • BrokerTec is the first company to relocate an entire market
The City of London is being dealt another Brexit blow.

CME Group Inc. is moving its European market for short-term financing, the largest in the region, out of London because the exchange operator wants to guarantee continental firms can continue to use it if there is a no-deal Brexit.

The decision, which was taken before CME took over the business from NEX Group Plc last week, is the first example of a major financial market leaving the U.K. While every sizable trading venue has set up a regulated entity in the EU because of Brexit, BrokerTec -- as the business is known -- is the first to move an existing market from London to a continental European city: Amsterdam."

Every day in every way Brexit becomes even more of a disaster.
 

Woosh

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Interesting article
that's the problem of political correctness. How are you going to reach people who do not care for the usual political spin? That is because it's not enough to moan about other people, you have to get them voting with you. UKIP uses crude language to reach their audience, Aaron Banks supports UKIP and adopts their language.
Will you call a spade a spade? Will you accept that there are scroungers living off other people's taxes or the Dutch taking our fish?
 

oldgroaner

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that's the problem of political correctness. How are you going to reach people who do not care for the usual political spin? That is because it's not enough to moan about other people, you have to get them voting with you. UKIP uses crude language to reach their audience, Aaron Banks supports UKIP and adopts their language.
Will you call a spade a spade? Will you accept that there are scroungers living off other people's taxes or the Dutch taking our fish?
Depends what you mean by scroungers, are you talking about the Tax dodgers and the Royal Family or the unemployed?
And since when did our supply of fish come from the North Sea?
Where does the fish we eat in the UK come from?
In the UK, supermarkets have strict sourcing policies in place to ensure their supply chain is
sustainable and ethical. We have more than 100 species of
seafood available from the UK coastline, however, much of what we eat is imported from further afield. In general:
Cod, haddock and other whitefish comes from sustainable stocks in
Iceland and the Faroe Islands.
Salmon and pollack come from Scotland, Norway and the USA
Coldwater prawns are from Denmark and Canada
Fresh tuna from Mauritius and the Seychelles
Warm water prawns from Thailand and India While it is true that some species are at low levels
North Sea cod in particular many other types of fish are abundant in British waters. In Cornwall, for example,40 different species of fish are landed every day, of which only 12 are subject to quotas and for those that are restricted by quotas many have seen quota increases in recent years reflecting the greater abundance of some stocks
Fishermen around the UK are involved in a variety of voluntary codes of conducts to provide
responsible management of ocean resources. These include real time closures, when
fishermen find concentrations of juvenile fish, and other voluntary closed areas on a more
seasonal basis, such as the Trevose Box Closure an area of 3,600 square miles off Padstow which closes each season to protect the spawning of fish such as Dover sole and whiting. This agreement was secured by Cornish fishermen working closely with their
European counterparts.

As with almost all Leave campaign propaganda this has been blown up out of all proportion
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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What a difference from the UK. I've just learnt that Germany and France have already produced draft legislation on what happens to personal things like status and benefits for their resident UK citizens in the event of a no deal Brexit. Even Italy has made pronouncements.

We haven't even started thinking clearly about this, yet we are the ones exiting.

How can anyone believe we'll be successful in open competition in the World market when we can't even prepare for it.
.
 

oldgroaner

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Woosh

Trade Member
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We haven't even started thinking clearly about this, yet we are the ones exiting.
it's because the margin 52/48 was so small, people in charge of making brexit happen still do not see how to. They are simply aiming to delay the process via asking the EU for a transition period, clearly hoping for a shift in public opinion.
 
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oyster

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 7, 2017
10,422
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West West Wales
it's because the margin 52/48 was so small, people in charge of making brexit happen still do not see how to. They are simply aiming to delay the process via asking the EU for a transition period, clearly hoping for a shift in public opinion.
No-one is in charge of making brexit happen. Even if they think they are. There are lots of people milling about making a complete mess.

The easiest way of deferring brexit would have been to spend however long it took to get things worked out before issuing Article 50.
 

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