Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

I would be ashamed to admit to people that I am a 'Brexit' fan. I'd be ashamed on account of the tens of thousands of despicable fascists and racists that I know would be on 'the same side' as it were, supporting the cause of evil and openly displaying hatred for all those people who don't appear and/or sound 'real English'.

This short video clip describes quite plainly why decent people need to take a stand against all those still supporting 'Brexit' and pledging allegiance to the liars and cheats who have dragged this country to the brink of economic and social disaster:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=691729097839147

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Fascism is now the strongest it has been both in the UK and in the world at large for about 80 years.

It isn't difficult to spot fascists due to the message they put across but it is extremely important to recognise the politicians and broadcasters who unrelentingly deliver their message of hate to those in particular that they identify as being discontent with the social order or political direction of the country. The economic circumstances of the nation or even the shrinking domestic budget are other triggers for those feeling disenfranchised by a an elitist government which claims to be democratic but is in fact a mix of plutocracy and oligarchy.

Beware of fascists pretending to be your friend.They're not, they're just hoping that you're gullible enough to enable them into power, then you're as screwed as the rest of us.

Michael Rosen has no problem seeing through both the lies and the promises that will inevitably be broken before people realise the mistake they have made:


Tom

 

[oyster]

Michael Rosen has no problem seeing through both the lies and the promises that will inevitably be broken before people realise the mistake they have made

I have much time for Michael Rosen.

 

[oyster]

Pembrokeshire manages to find a positive in brexit!


Pembrokeshire Brexit impact log lists all but one as negative


A Welsh council's internal Brexit impact register detailing 19 ways it thinks Brexit will have an impact lists all but one as negative.

The only positive listed in Pembrokeshire council's register is "reduced demand for services if population reduces".

The council has seven risks coded red - "likely to have a high impact".

These include the "imposition of border controls" potentially affecting vital food and medicine supplies.

The document was released to Sky News in a freedom of information request.

The positive listed by Pembrokeshire council is that there will be "reduced demand for services if population reduces".

• Hunt warns EU of 'no deal by accident'
• Barnier rules out UK's customs proposal
• Brexit: All you need to know

Other risks listed include:

• Increased costs on imported goods due to imposition of tariffs
• Reduced income from fees and charges
• Loss of employees from EU27 countries in the council's employment
• Increased demand for services due to increased poverty
• Loss of access to EU funding programmes

The UK is due to leave the European Union on 29 March 2019 and UK ministers say they want to reach a deal with the EU covering issues such as trade and border checks.

But they are also making contingency plans to prepare for leaving with no agreement in place.

Last week EU chief negotiator Michel Barnier rejected a key part of Prime Minister Theresa May's proposals, which would involve the UK collecting customs duties on its behalf.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-politics-45044334

Of course, fewer people means less council tax...

 

[oldgroaner]

Misplaced optimism in the Telegraph
"
Jane MerrickThe anti-Semitism scandal has finished off Labour – moderate MPs must start anew

Why should it?
Does the average person care all that much, despite the efforts of the media?
Come to that, considering the mess we are in the fate of Corbyn is only of marginal interest, and ironically who can predict that this same press won't be lauding his praises next week if they think he will save Holy Brexit for them?

 

[oldgroaner]

The Express decides to create some News
"
EU ON THE RETREAT: Barnier softens Brexit stance as EU27 fear Theresa May WILL walk away
THE EU appeared to be on the retreat over Brexit after its chief negotiator Michel Barnier stepped back from his hard line stance over striking a deal with Britain.

Then puts this
"
Mr Barnier tweeted: “Brexit negotiation can reach good outcome. We must solve withdrawal issues incl. Ireland/NI.
“EU wants new partnership w/ UK on security & w/ ambitious free trade agreement at its heart. We can do this based on #EuCo principles: indivisibility of 4 freedoms & EU autonomy.“
The Brussels negotiator still complained Mrs May’s controversial Chequers proposals undermine the EU’s single market rules but said he “respected” Mrs May’s offer.

How does repeat the position of the EU remains unchanged equate with being "on the retreat"?

 

[Woosh]

Misplaced optimism in the Telegraph
"
Jane MerrickThe anti-Semitism scandal has finished off Labour – moderate MPs must start anew

Why should it?
Does the average person care all that much, despite the efforts of the media?
Come to that, considering the mess we are in the fate of Corbyn is only of marginal interest, and ironically who can predict that this same press won't be lauding his praises next week if they think he will save Holy Brexit for them?

I suspect JC does a 'Trump' on this subject.
The sociologist angle is this: like in a TV wrestling show, people want to see their politician as 'good guy' or 'bad guy'. DT excels in this. 90% of media comments are hostile to him and yet, he may win another term of office. JC does not need to pander to or soothe the MSM, he only needs the approval of his supporters who are by and large see what happens in Gaza as more than a tragedy.

 

[Woosh]

How does repeat the position of the EU remains unchanged equate with being "on the retreat"?

I reckon that the EU will give TM her transition deal. They only need to fudge their red line on the NI border a little.

1. the future EU/UK relationship will be a close one.
2. the ECJ will decide what happens to trade on NI border after the transition.
3. EU citizens will continue to move easily across EU/UK border although there will be limitation on whether they can seek work or receive in work benefit.

 

[oldgroaner]

The Daily Mail have resurrect the Minford mob again
"
Revealed: British exports to countries with no trade deal 'have risen THREE TIMES faster than those to the EU'

• Study: Trading on World Trade Organization rules need not hold economy back
• Treasury said GDP/person would be £5,200 lower than if UK left on WTO terms
• But today's report accuses Treasury of making 'shamelessly partisan predictions'

Report author Michael Burrage said adopting WTO rules could be the 'very best' option for the UK, adding that there was 'no evidence that EU membership has boosted economic growth.'
Note the wording of this part
"The study by the Economists for Free Trade Group says that trading on World Trade Organization rules - a so-called Brexit - need not hold the economy back, and could even prove to be a benefit..

The past tense clearly indicates this is the paper re-hashing the pre referendum tripe from Minford and co, and misses the point that some of the companies involved in these exports may flee the country!

 

[shemozzle999]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/998289/brexit-latest-remainer-uk-shortages-eu-project-fear

 

[Zlatan]

https://dailym.ai/2OIeDXs

Worth reading in its entirety. It goes some way to explain why Labour hasn't and can't put up any opposition to current government and why we are in predicament we are.
Voters are caught between extremes. Country actually doesn't want either.

 

[Zlatan]

I would be ashamed to admit to people that I am a 'Brexit' fan. I'd be ashamed on account of the tens of thousands of despicable fascists and racists that I know would be on 'the same side' as it were, supporting the cause of evil and openly displaying hatred for all those people who don't appear and/or sound 'real English'.

This short video clip describes quite plainly why decent people need to take a stand against all those still supporting 'Brexit' and pledging allegiance to the liars and cheats who have dragged this country to the brink of economic and social disaster:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=691729097839147

Tom

From the person who calls folk scum, trolls, w4ankers, racists, xenophobes and idiots. Only a touch ironic. You should be ashamed but you will justify your behaviour.

 

[oldgroaner]

https://dailym.ai/2OIeDXs

Worth reading in its entirety. It goes some way to explain why Labour hasn't and can't put up any opposition to current government and why we are in predicament we are.
Voters are caught between extremes. Country actually doesn't want either.

And it clearly doesn't want new labour, so what's your point?

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

From the person who calls folk scum, trolls, w4ankers, racists, xenophobes and idiots. Only a touch ironic. You should be ashamed but you will justify your behaviour.

But it doesn't justify theirs , does it?
Or do you think it does?
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Zlatan]

But it doesn't justify theirs , does it?
Or do you think it does?
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

Theirs??? Is that leavers, tories, royalists, folk who disagree with him.? He actually exhibits the exact behaviour he purports to despise. He is nearest we have to a fascist, extremely aggressive and it will be attitudes like his which lead to violence.
No matter which side of argument we agree with we should all criticise insulting posts. You defend Tom's.
I do respect your opinions OG but for life of me can not understand your defence of Tom.
No matter how you assess it calling other forum members "w4nkers etc etc" is wrong.
He, and his kind, have actually damaged both remain and labour arguments.
How do you justify his insults.Its childish, inflamatory and counter productive.
Yes, I label Tom a bigot because his posts demonstrate that nature. He must know some members very well to label them "w4nkers".

 

[oldgroaner]

Theirs??? Is that leavers, tories, royalists, folk who disagree with him.? He actually exhibits the exact behaviour he purports to despise. He is nearest we have to a fascist, extremely aggressive and it will be attitudes like his which lead to violence.
No matter which side of argument we agree with we should all criticise insulting posts. You defend Tom's.
I do respect your opinions OG but for life of me can not understand your defence of Tom.
No matter how you assess it calling other forum members "w4nkers etc etc" is wrong.
He, and his kind, have actually damaged both remain and labour arguments.
How do you justify his insults.Its childish, inflamatory and counter productive.
Yes, I label Tom a bigot because his posts demonstrate that nature. He must know some members very well to label them "w4nkers".

You unfailingly try to put words into other other people's mouths don't you?
My post asked the question "Does it justify theirs?"
How do you convert that into defending his posts?
Let me make myself clear, Tom's approach is not one I support, as it is too forthright for me, to describe the opposition in the way he does, the problem is quite simply that a lot of what he says about their motives. happens to be the truth, no matter how unpalatable you seem to find it.
Where he is pointing out the truth, he has my support.
Over name calling he doesn't.

 

[Zlatan]

You unfailingly try to put words into other other people's mouths don't you?
My post asked the question "Does it justify theirs?"
How do you convert that into defending his posts?
Let me make myself clear, Tom's approach is not one I support, as it is too forthright for me, to describe the opposition in the way he does, the problem is quite simply that a lot of what he says about their motives. happens to be the truth, no matter how unpalatable you seem to find it.
Where he is pointing out the truth, he has my support.
Over name calling he doesn't.

I agree with that OG.
I think you, ll find I have ticked like and agree on quite a few of Tom's posts .
Not hitting disagree when he does insult is condoning it.

 

[Woosh]

https://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/998289/brexit-latest-remainer-uk-shortages-eu-project-fear

although I don't disagree with what Sir Meyer said:

“Trying to get people to grasp that there is merit in the WTO Brexit option is like trying to persuade the 17th-century Inquisition that the earth rotates around the sun.”

WTO is the free market with the emphasis on the word 'free', it will suit some but I reckon the majority would still prefer the UK would not lower standards against EU countries just to be competitive.

 

[oldgroaner]

I agree with that OG.
I think you, ll find I have ticked like and agree on quite a few of Tom's posts .
Not hitting disagree when he does insult is condoning it.

Not at all, it is simply a matter of personal choice, I don't recall giving that up to anyone even if they style themselves as "Thought Police" and put their own skewed perceptions on my reasoning.

 

[oldgroaner]

although I don't disagree with what Sir Meyer said:

“Trying to get people to grasp that there is merit in the WTO Brexit option is like trying to persuade the 17th-century Inquisition that the earth rotates around the sun.”

WTO is the free market with the emphasis on the word 'free', it will suit some but I reckon the majority would still prefer the UK would not lower standards against EU countries just to be competitive.

Actually it isn't free is it? it has a complex set of rule of it's own, otherwise it would be unable to operate, and we would have to detach ourselves from EU membership and renegotiate with lord knows how many countries and that could take years.