Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

Interesting how the main characters on the leave side seem to be absenting themselves from the front line, Boris is back being a paper boy, Gove is keeping his head down somewhere, Davis is presumably in the HOC bar, only Fox is still out there begging for scraps and trying to prove he still has a job.

Jackass himself hasn't risen to challenge the spate of "project fear" factual information, and of course lord Nigel is back under his bridge.

Not a one of them is anxious to be identified with this Debacle in the making are they?

The leave faction seems to be suffering from Early Death Syndrome.

 

[oldtom]

No government can take us into such a catastrophe,can it ? KudosDave

Yes Dave, this current bunch of extremists have zero regard or respect for the common people and will do whatever they like, such is their arrogance and disdain for all those not belonging to the elite of the UK.

They may yet be stopped as with each day that passes, more and more citizens nay, subjects sadly, who initially thought 'Brexit' seemed like a great idea, are having a change of heart as the reality begins to dawn and time runs short.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

You need to badger them until they come clean about the meaning.

Adding: Just looked it up and got "Broken Record Of Clown Knowledge"

How about
Brexit Road Obstructions Clogging Kent

 

[oldtom]

The leave faction seems to be suffering from Early Death Syndrome.

Lord Haw-Haw suffered 'Early Death Syndrome' for his treasonous behaviour and assisting an enemy. He argued at trial that he couldn't be guilty of treason as he was an American citizen though naturalised German. The learned judge, however, was having none of it and pointed out that Joyce (real name) had lied in his successful application for a British passport and therefore owed allegiance to HM The King.

He was duly given his early death at Wandsworth prison while only 39 years old. I see no reason why such treasonous curs as all those named in your piece should not be afforded the same treatment today....ok, there isn't a death penalty but I'm sure that could be remedied to deter others in future from pursuing a similar course. As a famous human being (well, fairly close!) repeatedly said, 'How hard can it be?' If we could extend such 'ED Syndrome' to include all internet trolls, that would make this world a nicer place.

Tom

 

[oyster]

Early Death Syndrome

EDS = Ehlers–Danlos syndrome

A connective tissue disorder. And one thing that is severely lacking in them is connected, joined up thinking.

 

[oyster]

BBC news now questioning impact of brexit on tourism to the UK - and the twenty-something billion is contributes to our economy.

 

[Wicky]

lord Nigel is back under his bridge.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/nigel-farage-finally-left-speechless-13002252

 

[Danidl]

Lord Haw-Haw suffered 'Early Death Syndrome' for his treasonous behaviour and assisting an enemy. He argued at trial that he couldn't be guilty of treason as he was an American citizen though naturalised German. The learned judge, however, was having none of it and pointed out that Joyce (real name) had lied in his successful application for a British passport and therefore owed allegiance to HM The King.

He was duly given his early death at Wandsworth prison while only 39 years old. I see no reason why such treasonous curs as all those named in your piece should not be afforded the same treatment today....ok, there isn't a death penalty but I'm sure that could be remedied to deter others in future from pursuing a similar course. As a famous human being (well, fairly close!) repeatedly said, 'How hard can it be?' If we could extend such 'ED Syndrome' to include all internet trolls, that would make this world a nicer place.

Tom

My understanding is that he, Lord HaHaw was in fact an Irish citizen.. his family, and the surname Joyce was correct, and he himself lived a few doors down from where my mother lived in Galway city. So executing him was an act of vengeance as he was not a traitor,although being born before 1922, he had every right to ask British passport.

 

[oldgroaner]

Lord Haw-Haw suffered 'Early Death Syndrome' for his treasonous behaviour and assisting an enemy. He argued at trial that he couldn't be guilty of treason as he was an American citizen though naturalised German. The learned judge, however, was having none of it and pointed out that Joyce (real name) had lied in his successful application for a British passport and therefore owed allegiance to HM The King.

He was duly given his early death at Wandsworth prison while only 39 years old. I see no reason why such treasonous curs as all those named in your piece should not be afforded the same treatment today....ok, there isn't a death penalty but I'm sure that could be remedied to deter others in future from pursuing a similar course. As a famous human being (well, fairly close!) repeatedly said, 'How hard can it be?' If we could extend such 'ED Syndrome' to include all internet trolls, that would make this world a nicer place.

Tom

I can't see that catching on, can you? but certainly there should be some redress by legal means for causing the amount of damage that has been done , if and only if there is proof that this was done for very dubious motives.
The media too needs to be held to account under the same caveat.

There was nothing wrong in the case of people campaigning for Brexit if they did it in the hope of it benefiting the public.

However anyone Instigating a campaign promoting Brexit for nefarious reasons is in fact guilty of "Disturbing the Peace" on an inter Galactic sort of scale.

 

[oldgroaner]

They never learn in the Express
"
FINALLY! After months of tiptoeing UK TALKS TOUGH - Hunt threatens Brexit ‘TRAGEDY’ for EU
ANGELA Merkel and Emmanuel Macron were urged yesterday by Britain to use their influence to make Brussels understand the importance to Europe of striking a "pragmatic and sensible" Brexit deal.

It's a pity that no one can make our idiots understand that the idea that it will be a Tragedy for the EU implies that it will be many times worse for us!

 

[oyster]

My understanding is that he, Lord HaHaw was in fact an Irish citizen..

Interesting article/book review in Irish Times:

https://www.irishtimes.com/culture/books/searching-for-lord-haw-haw-the-life-and-lies-of-an-irish-nazi-1.2921477

 

[oldtom]

My understanding is that he, Lord HaHaw was in fact an Irish citizen.

He may well have been but this article from Wikipedia is enlightening:

Early life[edit]

William Brooke Joyce was born on Herkimer Street in Brooklyn, New York,[2] United States. His father was Michael Francis Joyce (9 December 1866 – 19 February 1941) an Irish Catholic from a family of farmers in Ballinrobe, County Mayo, who had taken United States citizenship on 25 October 1894. His mother was Gertrude Emily Brooke, who although born in Shaw and Crompton, Lancashire, England, was from a well-off Anglican Anglo-Irish family of medical practitioners associated with County Roscommon.

A few years after William's birth, the family returned to Salthill, Galway, permanently. Joyce attended St Ignatius College, a Jesuit school in Galway (from 1915–21). Joyce's mother was strongly Anglocentric and despite tensions with her father for marrying a Catholic, remained staunchly Protestant and Unionist herself, hostile to Irish nationalism. Joyce's father bought up houses and rented some to the Royal Irish Constabulary (RIC).

During the Irish War for Independence that Joyce was recruited by Capt. Patrick William Keating as a courier for British Army intelligence in Galway, who were then fighting against the Irish Republican Army.[3][4] He was known to have hung around with Black and Tans at Lenaboy Castle, which reportedly resulted in the Irish Republican Army dispatching a volunteer, Michael Molloy, to murder Joyce on his way home from school in December 1921, although minors were normally excluded from being executed by the IRA, usually being expelled or ostracised. Joyce reputedly survived only because his father had moved his family to another house on a different route. Capt. Keating arranged for William Joyce to be mustered into the Worcester Regiment soon after, taking him out of the dangerous situation in Ireland to Norton Barracks. A few months later he was discharged when it was found out he was underage.[5]

Joyce remained in England and briefly attended King's College School, Wimbledon, on a foreign exchange. His family followed him to England two years later, having backed the losing side in the conflict in Ireland. Joyce had relatives in Birkenhead, Cheshire, whom he visited on a few occasions. He then applied to Birkbeck College of the University of London, where he entered the Officer Training Corps. At Birkbeck, he obtained a first-class honours degree.[6] He also developed an interest in Fascism, and he worked with (but never joined) the British Fascists of Rotha Lintorn-Orman.

On 22 October 1924, while stewarding a meeting in support of Jack Lazarus (the Conservative Party candidate for Lambeth North in the general election),[7] Joyce was attacked by Communists and received a deep razor slash that ran across his right cheek. It left a permanent scar which ran from the earlobe to the corner of the mouth.[8] While Joyce often said that his attackers were Jewish, biographer Colin Holmes claims that Joyce's first wife told him in 1992 that "it wasn't a Jewish Communist who disfigured him .... He was knifed by an Irish woman".[9]

Interestingly, 'Wiki' has two entries about the man, one under his real name and the other using his 'Lord Haw-Haw' sobriquet.

Tom

 

[oyster]

And now Gina again:

People want a proper say on Brexit. Let them have it

Gina Miller
More and more Brits are losing faith in our government, and a new party won’t help. It’s time to demand to take control
Wed 1 Aug 2018 06.00 BST



‘I’m bored of the jostling for position by big egos, the confused messaging, and the outdated talk of both rremainers and leavers.’ Photograph: Guy Bell/REX/Shutterstock
I’ve always subscribed to Michelle Obama’s golden rule that when your opponent goes low, you go high. I don’t think one moment that we should sink to the levels of the Brexiters – the dodgy money, the electoral lawbreaking and the lying – but I do wonder if those of us who remain deeply concerned about the consequences of Brexit are really landing all the blows that we can.

Rest of piece here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/01/people-brexit-brits-government-new-political-party

 

[oldgroaner]

And now Gina again:

People want a proper say on Brexit. Let them have it

Gina Miller
More and more Brits are losing faith in our government, and a new party won’t help. It’s time to demand to take control
Wed 1 Aug 2018 06.00 BST



‘I’m bored of the jostling for position by big egos, the confused messaging, and the outdated talk of both rremainers and leavers.’ Photograph: Guy Bell/REX/Shutterstock
I’ve always subscribed to Michelle Obama’s golden rule that when your opponent goes low, you go high. I don’t think one moment that we should sink to the levels of the Brexiters – the dodgy money, the electoral lawbreaking and the lying – but I do wonder if those of us who remain deeply concerned about the consequences of Brexit are really landing all the blows that we can.

Rest of piece here:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/aug/01/people-brexit-brits-government-new-political-party

I agree with this sentiment, at this sordid moment in our History the fate of the nation should be decided by the nation itself, since the politicians have been given every chance to do the right and honourable thing, and let us down so dismally.

But this is not enough: they have proved that we need a new and better way of running this country than the Club for Benefits Cheats and swindlers the House of Commons has become.

It is no longer capable of providing the stable and benevolent environment the nation needs

There is an urgent need to begin a process of revising the way our Government operates, to make it worthy of the name.

 

[Woosh]

a second referendum is not as good as a fresh general election.

 

[oldgroaner]

a second referendum is not as good as a fresh general election.

Really? first there needs to be a party that offers an alternative to Brexit, and not only that a different and better way of running the country too.
More of the same old same old will no longer suffice.

The people voted for Change for the better, thinking it's name was Brexit

This has proved to be a lie, as Brexit is not change, just more and worse, of the same.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think it is about time that we asked the same question
"How much does membership of the EU cost and how much do we gain from it?"
Slightly reworded
"How much does the UK Government cost the public? and what do we gain from it?"

 

[oldtom]

a second referendum is not as good as a fresh general election.

I believe the former will inevitably bring about the latter for these reasons:

1) The result will be very different from the first poll.

2) There is a GE scheduled for 2020 in any event but......

3) The result of (1) will force the incumbent administration into a situation whereby a leadership contest will occur and people will be so sick and tired of the government's lies and inability to do as they promised re the EU, that irresistible calls for a GE will bring about a premature GE.

Having said that, I'd hazard that a second referendum, preventing continuation of the A50 machinations would be a greater achievement than a change of government, given the number of red tories still at large in the Labour party. The last thing the country needs is a change from tory mis-rule to a revivalist 'New Labour' administration.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Here's another example of an institution that produces nothing that might be in the interests of the ordinary people of the UK. The Institute for Economic Affairs does not work for anyone except corporate business and the tory Party - check out Mark Littlewood's previous!

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=233570930815775

Tom

 

[Woosh]

1) The result will be very different from the first poll.

there is of course no guarantee that will be the case.
According to some sociologists, you can divide voters into two groups: those who decide on how they feel and those on numbers. That was the basis for the use of social platforms like FB to sway voters. The latter are divided into groups, thousands of adverts are designed to cajole and convince them to vote for one side or the other. When you have millions to spend, platforms will send you their own engineers to do your bidding.
What we need is simply a cross party, free vote in the HoC so that MPs can put national interests above party lines.