Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
A CETA deal could not be Canada plus plus....for that would mean that the EU would be compelled to improve the deal to Canada. In fact such a deal is likely to be inferior to Canada.
CETA does not include services.
CETA does not give us access to the 65 EU trade deals
It would be a much inferior deal to that we currently enjoy with the EU.
KudosDave
CETA does not include services.
CETA does not give us access to the 65 EU trade deals
It would be a much inferior deal to that we currently enjoy with the EU.
KudosDave
The case for another referendum seems to have grabbed the attention of a much wider audience over recent weeks. I'm happy to go along with that and equally happy to abide by whatever the result, provided the right question(s) is asked.
Some commentators have suggested there needs to be three options although I don't see why that is necessary but if it should turn out like that, my choice of options would be as follows:
Q1 - Remain
Q2 - Stay in EU
Q3 - Don’t Leave
Has anyone else noticed that the despicable extremists who have shouted the loudest about respecting the will of the people are precisely the ones most strongly opposed to permitting the people having the final say about any deal or no deal?
Tom
Some commentators have suggested there needs to be three options although I don't see why that is necessary but if it should turn out like that, my choice of options would be as follows:
Q1 - Remain
Q2 - Stay in EU
Q3 - Don’t Leave
Has anyone else noticed that the despicable extremists who have shouted the loudest about respecting the will of the people are precisely the ones most strongly opposed to permitting the people having the final say about any deal or no deal?
Tom
a second referendum is only possible if the government is forced into a no deal brexit which parliament will most likely disagree with..
Frédéric Bastiat, one of 'Woosh's old college friends, who went on to be something of an expert in economics had this to say about the vile people who rob, steal and defraud their fellow man as their primary method of personal wealth creation:
Sounds exactly like the modus operandi of the British establishment as underwritten by their parliamentary representatives, the tory party.
Tom
Sounds exactly like the modus operandi of the British establishment as underwritten by their parliamentary representatives, the tory party.
Tom
we'll likely lose the 65+ trade deals after the transition period, even with Labour's solution to be in a/the customs union.
The only way not to lose out on brexit is to reverse brexit after the transition. A less painful solution is EFTA membership + customs union.
.. reversing BREXIt is not within the power of the UK ,and even less so after the locks are changed.
A second referendum is possible if parliament decides we should have one.
Certainly one of the likely pressures which could force their hand is such a no-deal that they do not agree with but I find it difficult to believe that is the only possibility.
That is the real and deep issue.
If we could leave, see what happens, go "Oh dear, not so good" and re-join on the same old terms, then it would be nothing like as big an issue.
We can't.
But I'm quite certain the EU would be happy, indeed delighted, to cancel our departure by bending the rules if necessary, since it's as much in their interests as ours. The political kudos for the EU in restraining others who are restless will be too valuable to turn down.
We'd lose the prior concession of the rebate, but the cost would be kept low otherwise to faciitate our remaining a member.
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Up to the point of leaving, they might do many things. Afterwards, I'd not count on anything - simply because I don't think we can foretell. Certainly not from where we are at the moment.
That's because they know a second referendum would undoubtedly have a Remain result with a far more substantial margin than the Leave one last time.
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Of course, only while we are still technically in could article 50's intentions be cancelled by bending the rules.
Once we've actually finally left we could only be a member again by applying for membership and accepting all the conditions.
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I'm sure the EU could write in a few special conditions:
- you lose your soverignty
- no longer willing to take the blame for everything
- special higher rates or one off payement for all the faffing about since 2016...
This yet again old ground which has previously been ploughed. There is an opinion circulating around Whitehall, that article 50 was an invitation to treat not a decision. . But that is what it is , an opinion, and I suspect a forlorn hope. Should the UK wish to either seek additional time or recind article 50, they would need the unanimous agreement of all the remaining members. It is not in Mr Barnier or Mr Junkers or Merkels gift to do so, but I would expect a majority, including Ireland would seek to facilitate it. .. however a majority is not enough. Likewise I would not anticipate that the majority would want to punish the UK in any fashion... Since you have already been beating yourselves up, why would outsiders join in.
Both two major parties do not support a second referendum because both are fearful of the resurgence of UKIP. The only condition that can change their position is a no deal brexit.
I have over the months posted here several times about a certain medicine (liothyronine) which is often not available on the NHS despite being of the utmost importance.
Not surprisingly, those who are currently managing to buy liothyronine from Germany (or other EU countries), typically with private prescriptions, are worried. Indeed, those who are managing to get European products dispensed on NHS prescriptions within the UK are worried.
There are also many who for various reasons require the more common levothyroxine in formulations from non-UK suppliers. Again, often from Germany, as they seem to have some very good ideas about how to make the best products.
It appears that UK prescriptions will no longer qualify as EU cross-border prescriptions thus at a stroke wiping out availability for many.
On top of these obvious importation issues, there is considerable concern over whether UK products will continue to be available in sufficient quantities. We know nothing of the sourcing of ingredients (whether the active ingredient of the excipients), or the various other things like testing kits to prove the product is of standard, parts for machinery, and so on.
Even if every single issue actually disappears like the morning mist as the sun rises, there is a massive level of concern, worry, anxiety.
I wouldn't expect you to know this, but anxiety is a common and sometimes disabling symptom of hypothyroidism.
As a matter of simple humanity, this must not be allowed to continue through to 29th March 2019. To do so would, to use an Americanism, be a cruel and unusual punishment vested upon the innocent.
Not surprisingly, those who are currently managing to buy liothyronine from Germany (or other EU countries), typically with private prescriptions, are worried. Indeed, those who are managing to get European products dispensed on NHS prescriptions within the UK are worried.
There are also many who for various reasons require the more common levothyroxine in formulations from non-UK suppliers. Again, often from Germany, as they seem to have some very good ideas about how to make the best products.
It appears that UK prescriptions will no longer qualify as EU cross-border prescriptions thus at a stroke wiping out availability for many.
On top of these obvious importation issues, there is considerable concern over whether UK products will continue to be available in sufficient quantities. We know nothing of the sourcing of ingredients (whether the active ingredient of the excipients), or the various other things like testing kits to prove the product is of standard, parts for machinery, and so on.
Even if every single issue actually disappears like the morning mist as the sun rises, there is a massive level of concern, worry, anxiety.
I wouldn't expect you to know this, but anxiety is a common and sometimes disabling symptom of hypothyroidism.
As a matter of simple humanity, this must not be allowed to continue through to 29th March 2019. To do so would, to use an Americanism, be a cruel and unusual punishment vested upon the innocent.
Your opinion, at present. I don't know what else could force it, but I am not convinced it is impossible.
And yet more - this time (again) the IEA:
Rightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donors
Exclusive: Institute of Economic Affairs boss tells undercover reporter IEA in ‘Brexit influencing game’
A rightwing thinktank has been offering potential US donors access to government ministers and civil servants as it raises cash for research to support the free-trade deals demanded by hardline Brexiters, according to an investigation.
The director of the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) was secretly recorded telling an undercover reporter that funders could get to know ministers on first-name terms and that his organisation was in “the Brexit influencing game”.
Mark Littlewood claimed the IEA could make introductions to ministers and said the thinktank’s trade expert knew Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Davis and Liam Fox well.
The IEA chief was also recorded suggesting potential US donors could fund and shape “substantial content” of research commissioned by the thinktank and that its findings would always support the argument for free-trade deals.
This could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.
Speaking about what kind of Westminster access the IEA could provide donors with, Littlewood told the investigator: “I have absolutely no problem with people who have business interests, us facilitating those.”
The investigation, undertaken in May and June, also revealed the thinktank had already provided access to a minister for a US organisation.
The disclosures are likely to raise fresh questions about the independence and status of the IEA, which is established as an educational charity. Charity Commission rules state that “an organisation will not be charitable if its purposes are political”.
Rightwing UK thinktank 'offered ministerial access' to potential US donors
Exclusive: Institute of Economic Affairs boss tells undercover reporter IEA in ‘Brexit influencing game’
A rightwing thinktank has been offering potential US donors access to government ministers and civil servants as it raises cash for research to support the free-trade deals demanded by hardline Brexiters, according to an investigation.
The director of the Institute of Economic Affairs (IEA) was secretly recorded telling an undercover reporter that funders could get to know ministers on first-name terms and that his organisation was in “the Brexit influencing game”.
Mark Littlewood claimed the IEA could make introductions to ministers and said the thinktank’s trade expert knew Boris Johnson, Michael Gove, David Davis and Liam Fox well.
The IEA chief was also recorded suggesting potential US donors could fund and shape “substantial content” of research commissioned by the thinktank and that its findings would always support the argument for free-trade deals.
This could hugely benefit US farmers by lifting the ban on the sale in the UK of beef from cattle treated with growth hormones and chlorine-washed chicken.
Speaking about what kind of Westminster access the IEA could provide donors with, Littlewood told the investigator: “I have absolutely no problem with people who have business interests, us facilitating those.”
The investigation, undertaken in May and June, also revealed the thinktank had already provided access to a minister for a US organisation.
The disclosures are likely to raise fresh questions about the independence and status of the IEA, which is established as an educational charity. Charity Commission rules state that “an organisation will not be charitable if its purposes are political”.
Actually Campbells were highlanders and were influential to the extent that they were among the power faction in the Scottish Parliament that did this
"For generations, the Borders-based Bells survived along with their neighbours through cattle reiving on the West Marches. Their tower at Blackethouse in Dumfriesshire was destroyed in an English raid of 1547, and, after the Union of the Crowns in 1603, they were declared "unruly" by the Scottish Parliament. Many of the Clan moved to the Ulster Plantations, where the name is still widely held. Others emigrated to Australia and New Zealand. Several also crossed the Border into England and settled in Northumberland.
The Bells and Campbells were not shall be say "compatible" regarding each other with the affectionate title "Scunners" (I think you can work that out.)
The Bells are a Sept of the major Clan "Gordon" who if anything were even more violent, but did it with more "class" ie. considered it more polite to stab someone in the "Front" a practice the Bell's frowned on for Health and Safety reasons.
"Two regiments named the "Gordon Highlanders" have been raised from the Clan Gordon"
You would never get a regiment named after the Bell's,as you would have to be extremely fast and cunning catch them first, and escaping from jails was something of a craft handed down from Father to son, sometimes from Mother to Daughter too.
As to being declared "unruly" I mean to say, a Bell being unruly? how could anyone think that? we are the very epitome of diplomacy and restraint......
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