Brexit, for once some facts.

[tommie]

Think that`s putting a brave face on the situation, fact is Irish companies aren`t stupid, they will need access to the UK market, so nothing is simpler than moving their operations into the North..

Has Leo promised them anything better to date?

Penny beginning to drop.

 

[Danidl]

Think that`s putting a brave face on the situation, fact is Irish companies aren`t stupid, they will need access to the UK market, so nothing is simpler than moving their operations into the North..

Has Leo promised them anything better to date?

Penny beginning to drop.

The software and engineering markets is an area in which I have extensive experience and contacts. At no stage have i ever suggested that a no customs union BREXIt will be other than painful and expensive for the RoI as indeed it will be for the UK and more particularly NI. It is prudent business practice to hedge ones bets.
Down here, we use cents not pence... .
Can you not see the difference between the strident tones coming from Westminister and the level of concensus from both Dublin and Brussels?.

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
In particular, Mr Corbyn has concerns about what he sees as restrictive state aid rules and regulations that might interfere with his plans to reverse the privatization of public services.

But Lord Kinnock rubbished the claims as being “based on falsehood”, adding: “Neither the EEA nor the EU are part of the socialist superstate of neocon delusion, or of the global capitalist adventure playground of infantile leftist illusion.

“The EEA is a mixed-economy agreement of 31 democracies ‘to promote continuous and balanced strengthening of trade and economic relations between the contracting parties with equal conditions of competition and the respect of the same rules’.


“None of that prevents public ownership, social initiative, improving tax justice, promoting employment or advancing the welfare state.”

Earlier this week five Labour MPs in the Northeast wrote a joint-article in The Independent warning that failure to back the UK staying in the single market would devastate family living standards in their region.

Time to become the opposition, Corbyn!

 

[Woosh]

“The EEA is a mixed-economy agreement of 31 democracies ‘to promote continuous and balanced strengthening of trade and economic relations between the contracting parties with equal conditions of competition and the respect of the same rules’.

that presents a serious problem for the hard brexiters and also to JC.
The hard brexiters want the UK to be more competitive by changing the rules that apply to the UK, JC also does not want UK to become a 'rule taker'.
I wonder how long the argument about 'rule taker' will run.

 

[oldgroaner]

that presents a serious problem for the hard brexiters and also to JC.
The hard brexiters want the UK to be more competitive by changing the rules that apply to the UK, JC also does not want UK to become a 'rule taker'.
I wonder how long the argument about 'rule taker' will run.

Till the EU decides for them I suspect

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[oldtom]

Couldn't resist this:



Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

Highly recommended [emoji41]

Couldn't resist this:

View attachment 24701

Tom

Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

rule takers vs rule makers - it is right at the nub of brexit.
Why is the English so sensitive to this argument?

 

[flecc]

rule takers vs rule makers - it is right at the nub of brexit.
Why is the English so sensitive to this argument?

Centuries of Britain making the rules for much of the world, accompanied by Britons long being educated (brainwashed) into believing British superiority.

The sensitivity is provoked by the contrast between that superiority belief and each intruding reality.
.

 

[Woosh]

Centuries of Britain making the rules for much of the world, accompanied by Britons long being educated (brainwashed) into believing British superiority.

The sensitivity is provoked by the contrast between that superiority belief and each intruding reality.
.

that may be but there is a notable difference between Brits in Scotland, Wales, NI and middle England.

 

[oyster]

Couldn't resist this:

View attachment 24701

Tom

Where did you get that gem?

 

[flecc]

that may be but there is a notable difference between Brits in Scotland, Wales, NI and middle England.

You did specifically ask about English sensitivity.

Scotland of course has its own education system and specifically its own separate pride from that of the English.

Northern Ireland is a very recent invention, due to its ex Scottish population, so largely unaffected by past English education.

Wales I see as a divided nation, their North and South being different countries.

The English largely Brexit vote is in two parts intrinsically a belief in English superiority over others. First that alone we will be better than combined with the EU, meaning a belief the EU and its nations inferiorities are holding us back. Second the belief that we will gain from worldwide trading, which implies what we have to offer them is better than what they can offer to us.

That both those beliefs are demonstrably wrong is why Brexit is a very big mistake which will cost us dear.
.

 

[Danidl]

You did specifically ask about English sensitivity.

Scotland of course has its own education system and specifically its own separate pride from that of the English.

Northern Ireland is a very recent invention, due to its ex Scottish population, so largely unaffected by past English education.

Wales I see as a divided nation, their North and South being different countries.

The English largely Brexit vote is in two parts intrinsically a belief in English superiority over others. First that alone we will be better than combined with the EU, meaning a belief the EU and its nations inferiorities are holding us back. Second the belief that we will gain from worldwide trading, which implies what we have to offer them is better than what they can offer to us.

That both those beliefs are demonstrably wrong is why Brexit is a very big mistake which will cost us dear.
.

The NI situation is more convoluted than that. On one level there were the landowning factory ownibg class ..the official unionist grouping who expected their protestant workers to vote with them. Many with double barrelled names... ... which they did, until they got a champion in the form of Ian Paisley . Then they realised they had a voice however As a plantation settler community they could not afford to acknowledge the wrongs being done to the Native population.
The natives being catholic and therefore second class would never have bought into the english is superior concept... even if in cases it was..
The huge change was the free university education acts brought in all over the UK . The catholic population seized this opportunity and became lawyers and engineers . The protestant working class community did not and lost out...

 

[flecc]

The NI situation is more convoluted than that. On one level there were the landowning factory ownibg class ..the official unionist grouping who expected their protestant workers to vote with them. Many with double barrelled names... ... which they did, until they got a champion in the form of Ian Paisley . Then they realised they had a voice however As a plantation settler community they could not afford to acknowledge the wrongs being done to the Native population.
The natives being catholic and therefore second class would never have bought into the english is superior concept... even if in cases it was..
The huge change was the free university education acts brought in all over the UK . The catholic population seized this opportunity and became lawyers and engineers . The protestant working class community did not and lost out...

Agreed of course, but this full an explanation was far beyond what was necessary to make my point in replying to Woosh. That N.I. isn't England, as their Brexit vote helped show.
.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The English largely Brexit vote is in two parts intrinsically a belief in English superiority over others.
.

Yes they think they are superior to the Scots, Welsh and Irish. Then they have a huge inferiority complex to Germany, France, Italy and Spain etc.:

- great German sports cars weren't built in tiny little sheds
- the French have better tasting food
- the Italians dress well and are better lovers
- the Spanish have better weather
-...

But hey! You're the greatest trading nation in the world!

 

[flecc]

Then they have a huge inferiority complex to Germany, France, Italy and Spain etc.:

Not so most of the Brexit voters I was posting about, they really are misguided enough to believe the English are superior to the people of those countries.

It even crops up in this forum with delusional posts about certain past British products. And of course there was no more obvious an illustration than the UK public voting Concorde as the greatest British technical achievement, despite the competing British supersonic design being dropped in favour of building the French one.
.

 

[Woosh]

I asked the question because it seems to me that until the BBC and MSM succeed in getting brexit voters to accept that we would achieve more as rule takers (ie membership of some closed groupings like the EEA) than as rule makers (ie WTO member), the stalemate will continue.

 

[oldgroaner]

I asked the question because it seems to me that until the BBC and MSM succeed in getting brexit voters to accept that we would achieve more as rule takers (ie membership of some closed groupings like the EEA) than as rule makers (ie WTO member), the stalemate will continue.

The obvious dichotomy there is that we were rule makers (and avoiders) in the EU, so why the heck are we leaving?

 

[Woosh]

The obvious dichotomy there is that we were rule makers (and avoiders) in the EU, so why the heck are we leaving?

we leave because the existing club rules are too democratic, not giving us a bigger say in most areas.

 

[oldtom]

Oops! Was it something we said?



Tom