Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

As Mrs Brown might .Say .. "that's nice. ".. when she\ he means anything but.... But parliament does not have that freedom... The uk gave that away when they involked A50. This is all part of the fantasy affecting both sides of the British establishment in this matter. One side believes that they can have everything for nothing and the other that if they" say ok we are staying" that everything will be ok and just as it was before... It is no longer so and the uk will be depending on the goodwill of strangers.

We had a meeting today in Dundalk with Michael Barnier , our ministers and local businesses. As a retiree. I was not invited , but however... Ms Foster of the DUP had been complaining that the EU were not responsive to their issues . regarding the border issue in particular.and the prospect of a customs border in the Irish sea. His response was polite but could have said ..I am not representing you in this discussion.

I watched Barnier there on TV.

On your initial mention, parliament does have that freedom, I think you mean they couldn't enforce it on the EU.

But I firmly believe the EU would be delighted to scrap Article 50, since it would so strongly support their position and be a setback for all the others speaking of leaving the EU. They could lean on any member objecting to us staying in by blocking article 50 withdrawal, or if that failed, they could expedite our resumption of membership by other means.
.

 

[Danidl]

I watched Barnier there on TV.

On your initial mention, parliament does have that freedom, I think you mean they couldn't enforce it on the EU.

But I firmly believe the EU would be delighted to scrap Article 50, since it would so strongly support their position and be a setback for all the others speaking of leaving the EU. They could lean on any member objecting to us staying in by blocking article 50 withdrawal, or if that failed, they could expedite our resumption of membership by other means.
.

I accept fully your distinction, about the freedom of the uk parliament. .. "man proposes but God disposes "
.
I do believe that a majority of the EU would welcome a recindment or return, but I would not be sanguine that it would be unanimous or easy to achieve. I could name objectors... I don't necessarily agree that viewing it as vindication of the eu stance as being the reason for acceptance of the UK, which it certainly is, but as righting a wrong and plugging a gaping hole. . Countries in middle europe have less engagement with the UK and no fraternal ties.

 

[oldtom]

He's a career politician first, he used to back Thatcher's policies, now he's backing Theresa May's. Who knows who or what he'll be backing next, other than himself.
.

Correctly identified 'flecc'! There's a whole bunch of them now, all prepared to say whatever is required to ensure their continued membership of the best club in London. Actual politics, constituents and the best interests of the British people are down the list of priorities with this modern breed of career politician.

Tom

 

[flecc]

I accept fully your distinction, about the freedom of the uk parliament. .. "man proposes but God disposes "
.
I do believe that a majority of the EU would welcome a recindment or return, but I would not be sanguine that it would be unanimous or easy to achieve. I could name objectors... I don't necessarily agree that viewing it as vindication of the eu stance as being the reason for acceptance of the UK, which it certainly is, but as righting a wrong and plugging a gaping hole. . Countries in middle europe have less engagement with the UK and no fraternal ties.

Yes it could be tough, but I think the EU would devise a way as it's so much in their interests. And money talks, as second biggest contributor to the EU and therefore to those who might be most likely to be awkward, it's a lever.
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think the EU will be better of with the UK out and to keep you company we will give you Poland and Hungary, you can start up some kind of ex-members club with them. If you insist you can have Catalonia as well, Northern Italy might be a bit more complicated...

 

[oldgroaner]

My view - that I absolutely do NOT want any form of border - in the middle of the sea or anywhere else - between me in Wales and Northern Ireland seems to be entirely missing from discussion of this issue. (Mind, I don't want a border with the republic either.)

Some people seem very, even irresponsibly, relaxed over the impact of all this on two local ports - Pembroke Dock and Fishguard.

You are not alone, the main business of the Hull Docks is roll on roll off ferries to Europe, the effect could be very damaging to the city.

 

[oldgroaner]

They are definitely getting nervous in the Telegraph
"

May considering agreement with Brussels that Brexiteers fear would be 'EU Mark II'

Fun huh?

 

[oldgroaner]

The Express are getting nervous too
"
Brexit warning: UK risks 'CATASTROPHIC ERROR' if May rushes into trade deal with Trump
THERESA May will commit a “catastrophic error” if she rushes the UK into a trade deal with the United States before cementing a comprehensive trade strategy for Brexit Britain, a parliamentary committee has warned.

 

[oyster]

The Express are getting nervous too
"
Brexit warning: UK risks 'CATASTROPHIC ERROR' if May rushes into trade deal with Trump
THERESA May will commit a “catastrophic error” if she rushes the UK into a trade deal with the United States before cementing a comprehensive trade strategy for Brexit Britain, a parliamentary committee has warned.

We can be almost certain that any trade deal with the USA will be primarily to their advantage. Given the way Trump does things, he'd offer anything and then you would find the reality was very different. The only exception I can see would be if the USA makes a mistake - and a few tiny sweeteners to allow negotiators to idiotically claim how wonderful a deal it is.

 

[oldtom]

So, what do we know about Sajid Javid? Well, he's a tory so the propaganda rags will paint a picture for the cretins who believe what they read there and the BBC will explain through their political editor exactly the message that tory central office want you to receive.

For balance, one needs to look elsewhere. A good starting point is this news page:

home-secretary-sajid-javid-once-called-momentum-a-neo-fascist-group

Tom

 

[tillson]

Sajid Javid now Home Secretary, leaving him well placed to take over from Theresa May as Tory Leader and possibly Prime Minister

Sadiq Khan is the London mayor, Labour's top position outside of parliament.

Both are sons of bus drivers here. Schools careers advisors take note!
.

Well they’ve tried everything else, so why not chuck one of these two novelty acts at it?

 

[tillson]

I don’t understand the problem with the House of Lords voting to give parliament a say on the final Brexit deal. If May is going to get us, “the best possible deal”, “what is best for this country” and something which “works for the people of Great Britain” then such a deal will sail through parliament totally unimpeded.

Only someone with a track record of total failure, and demonstrating incompetence to the extent that you must wonder whether they are capable of wiping their own @rse without adult supervision, would have something to fear from.............. Got it! I now understand Theresa May’s problem with The House of Lords.

 

[Danidl]

My view - that I absolutely do NOT want any form of border - in the middle of the sea or anywhere else - between me in Wales and Northern Ireland seems to be entirely missing from discussion of this issue. (Mind, I don't want a border with the republic either.)

Some people seem very, even irresponsibly, relaxed over the impact of all this on two local ports - Pembroke Dock and Fishguard.

.. and i don't want a border with miles of trucks stuck on the hedgerows between dundalk and newry . If there is a relaxed stance it is in Whitehall not elsewhere.
Irish commerce is making its view felt by voting with its pocket. I reported last week of a new ferry which will transport 600 lorries every second day dublin france and also irish ferries has commissioned another ferry due to commence july. These are all additional to what happens at present The nett effect is that the welsh ports and towns may become just backwaters not the vibrant hubs they have been up to now. .. it has happened before. There once was a major service between Greenore and Hayshem with a magnificant hotel complex .

 

[tommie]

.. and i don't want a border with miles of trucks stuck on the hedgerows between dundalk and newry .

Really?!

you`re well used to congestion and Toll booths down there, remember Dublins `soft` border, the M50?! Absolutely nothing compared to pulling over a couple of trucks into a lay-by at dundalk or wherever.
Who wants a monstrosity like this straddling the Border?? Nobody it seems except Barnier and his cronies

 

[oldtom]

What does it actually take to get rid of the incompetent woman bringing the office of Prime Minister into greater disrepute than the last tory PM?

The hypocrisy, dishonesty and sheer disingenuousness of Theresa May is breathtaking as illustrated here:



Tom

 

[oldtom]

This article from Vox Political illustrates the obscene hypocrisy of Theresa May:

https://voxpoliticalonline.com/2018/05/01/toxic-theresa-mays-hostile-environment-is-the-worst-scandal-of-recent-years-she-must-resign-or-be-removed/

Tom

 

[flecc]

Who wants a monstrosity like this straddling the Border?? Nobody it seems except Barnier and his cronies
View attachment 24515

Hardly Barnier Tommie, it's the last thing he wants.

It's the UK's Brexiters who've voted for that monstrosity with their "Keep 'em out" and "Britain for the British" attitudes.
.

 

[Danidl]

Really?!

you`re well used to congestion and Toll booths down there, remember Dublins `soft` border, the M50?! Absolutely nothing compared to pulling over a couple of trucks into a lay-by at dundalk or wherever.
Who wants a monstrosity like this straddling the Border?? Nobody it seems except Barnier and his cronies
View attachment 24515

Tommie, Tommie, Tommie, get real. Nobody in the RoI wants a border checkpoint and associated delays at Carrickaron. I suspect that nobody in NI wants it either. The RoI can wear a customs border at Fishguard and Anglesea, we don't want it but could wear it. NI don't want one at Larne. .. but and it pains me to say this, but post brexit that won't be our problem ..neither the EUs or RoI, but it will be yours and Scotland's.
It is the continued fantasy of the BREXIt brigade that other people has the responsibility to solve their problem.
The only way by which customs posts can remain absent from the island of Ireland is by having a customs union north and south. The only way by which customs posts can remain absent between the island of Ireland and the islands of the uk is for the uk to remain within a customs union.
Now if the situation actually gets to the stage where the only commerce between NI and the rest of the island is a" few trucks in a laybyl", then we have both failed and the economic consequences for both of our economies is serious, and I would suggest dire for NI. It nay be painful to say but NI has decades of industrial development needed before it can compete with the South. .. that is a legacy from the troubles.

 

[oyster]

The RoI can wear a customs border at Fishguard and Anglesea, we don't want it but could wear it.

Please add Pembroke Dock? A poor area which needs that ferry.

The idea of a customs border of significance resulting in traffic delays and jams down the A477 and A40 would be very unwelcome. I hope the RoI doesn't actually accept such an option.

(Let's leave A40 traffic jams in Perivale and Hillingdon - not this end! )

 

[Danidl]

Please add Pembroke Dock? A poor area which needs that ferry.

The idea of a customs border of significance resulting in traffic delays and jams down the A477 and A40 would be very unwelcome. I hope the RoI doesn't actually accept such an option.

(Let's leave A40 traffic jams in Perivale and Hillingdon - not this end! )

.. my one experience at pembroke docks was not happy., Probably tried to wipe it from my mind... We had to make a speedy departure from france, due to a failure with the Irish Ferries then new Oscar Wilde , and were forced to drive overnight to Caen, then on a brittany ferries to Portsmouth, then a quick drive directly to Pembroke's dock after a night setting the French house to rights for the winter. .. bottom line we were knackered waiting for the boat and junior in the back seat had a bad cough, so every time I manage to doze, I was wakened.. Irish ferries had made an arrangement so it had to be that 3 am sailing.