Brexit, for once some facts.

flecc

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the PM job is special, they must represent the conscience of the nation, thus paying attention also to those who did not vote for their party.
That's why I only liked John Major and Tony Blair as PM, they clearly are not perfect examples but tolerable.
That doesn't work and never will. All the Majors and Blairs achieve is to divide their parties, each having their own "bast**ds" struggling to get their party back to it's true right or left position. Both main parties are still suffering the legacy of that.

They can't occupy the middle ground and have internal peace, only a true middle ground party like the LibDems can do that. The electorate deserve the choice.
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Danidl

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Spain will put cash first, as will the rest.

Arguing about the rock is better for Spain than actually getting it back.
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Money buys time but does not irradicate principle. The decision by China to reoccupy Hong Kong a case in point. It would have made no difference how much money the uk would have been willing to spend. The same is true for Gibraltar. To the Spanish people it is a constant minor irritation.
 

flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Money buys time but does not irradicate principle. The decision by China to reoccupy Hong Kong a case in point. It would have made no difference how much money the uk would have been willing to spend. The same is true for Gibraltar. To the Spanish people it is a constant minor irritation.
Yes I agree, but it's not the point I made, that the present position is worth more to the Spanish government. It's not just the cash, the common ground they have with the Spanish people over the Rock is valuable, the common enemy position. With that solved they'd be left with the far from common ground of Catalonia in their PR.
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D

Deleted member 4366

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I look at this thread from time to time, and the more I look at it, I can see that something doesn't look right.

There is more and more evidence that various agencies are using social media to circulate political and other propaganda or to promote their agenda. There is a whole strategy behind this of which there is an example below supposed leaked from GCHQ, but of course that could also have been generated by such a machine.

I've been following a Youtube channel about UFOs and similar things (Secureteam10). The guy figured out that he was getting a significant proportion of hate comments within seconds of his videos going live, before anybody would have had a chance to even start watching them. When he checked to see who was posting, the poster's account had only been set up seconds before posting and there was no history or activity other than the single hate comment, so, clearly, the comment had been generated by some sort of automatic process, which he has put down to an organisation that is trying to debunk his whole channel. He had a complete video about this, but for whatever reason that video was removed by himself.

Here's the link to the strategy docs:

https://theintercept.com/2014/02/24/jtrig-manipulation/

Read what's on those slides and think about any of it that could apply to this thread. It looks spot on for what happened to Amber Rudd and many before her.

Remember that what you read, hear and see in the media presented as fact are always carefully selected facts (that's if they're true) and other relevant facts are omitted.

AFAICS, not everything in this thread is just enthusiastic members expressing their opinions. I'm normally pretty good at spotting anomolies like this. As you probably know I've found and called out several stooges in the forum already.
 

oldgroaner

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The plan is full membership of the EU.... #stopbrexit and then do everything possible to solve the UK's problems internally, without blaming the EU / Immigrants, whilst also reforming the EU from within.



Plans are pretty common... them being discussed publicly is rare. But if you listen to the main players on the remain side you'll understand.

Its needs Brexit to be shown to be a disaster before it can be stopped, if its stopped to early it'll cause more problems. The long term target is to either have a peoples choice referendum on the deal, or ideally give Parliament and the Lords the confidence that they can vote to keep us in the EU as it is what the country needs and wants.

Its all heading in that direction currently and I can't see anything stopping it now.
I think you mean Plots, not Plans, surely?
 

oldgroaner

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AFAICS, not everything in this thread is just enthusiastic members expressing their opinions. I'm normally pretty good at spotting anomolies like this. As you probably know I've found and called out several stooges in the forum already.
Let's examine what you posted
"AFAICS, not everything in this thread is just enthusiastic members expressing their opinions."
Well it was till you came on!;)
Apart from yourself,who can you put a name to? any fool can cry "Russian Bot" it's a pretty primitive way of stifling conflicting opinions.

Lets see now what does a "Russian Bot "actually do?
Come on the thread and try to disrupt it.
Recognise anyone?
Is there some reason you want to stifle a debate on the merits or otherwise of Brexit?

A well constructed pragmatic argument would work better and not make the one crying wolf look so foolish.
You haven't even had the courtesy of expressing an opinion, have you? why not do that?
 
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Woosh

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unlikely in your opinion, and yet you appear not to want to take my bet.... so possibly you do think its likely?
I think remainers will gain about 500,000 more voters each year, mostly down to demography.
Do the maths. You'd need 2 more years just for a second referendum. To win comprehensively, wait 4-6 years and keep your fingers crossed that brexiters don't come up with new arguments.
 
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I think remainers will gain about 500,000 more voters each year, mostly down to demography.
Do the maths. You'd need 2 more years just for a second referendum. To win comprehensively, wait 4-6 years and keep your fingers crossed that brexiters don't come up with new arguments.
2 more years... and you honestly think we'll be out in 2 years? We'll be in a transition period, which by that point we'll be transitioning back to full EU membership. The will of the people changes with time, all we need is for parliament to see the shift and they'll all vote they way they want to, and not the way the 2016 referendum makes them feel they should.

https://twitter.com/bbcnewsnight/status/948976531220697088?lang=en
 
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Woosh

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2 more years... and you honestly think we'll be out in 2 years?
no, I think there won't be an agreed FTA by end of 2021 but there will be enough support for a second referendum to decide whether we should extend the transition or reverse brexit. The outcome would then likely be to extend the transition.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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Sajid Javid now Home Secretary, leaving him well placed to take over from Theresa May as Tory Leader and possibly Prime Minister

Sadiq Khan is the London mayor, Labour's top position outside of parliament.

Both are sons of bus drivers here. Schools careers advisors take note!
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Woosh

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Sajid Javid now Home Secretary, leaving him well placed to take over from Theresa May as Tory Leader and possibly Prime Minister
Sadiq Khan possibly but I can't see Sajid doing PMQs
 
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oldgroaner

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Sajid Javid now Home Secretary, leaving him well placed to take over from Theresa May as Tory Leader and possibly Prime Minister

Sadiq Khan is the London mayor, Labour's top position outside of parliament.

Both are sons of bus drivers here. Schools careers advisors take note!
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I wonder how well that will sit with certain right wing factions?
Of the "We won, now send them back." variety.
 
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Woosh

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He could be the stop gap if TM slips off her pedestal before the next general election.
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If TM had a fall, I'd see Andrea Leadsom coming back as interim PM.
 
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Danidl

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Let's examine what you posted
"AFAICS, not everything in this thread is just enthusiastic members expressing their opinions."
Well it was till you came on!;)
Apart from yourself,who can you put a name to? any fool can cry "Russian Bot" it's a pretty primitive way of stifling conflicting opinions.

Lets see now what does a "Russian Bot "actually do?
Come on the thread and try to disrupt it.
Recognise anyone?
Is there some reason you want to stifle a debate on the merits or otherwise of Brexit?

A well constructed pragmatic argument would work better and not make the one crying wolf look so foolish.
You haven't even had the courtesy of expressing an opinion, have you? why not do that?
Read what he has written ... There is sufficient evidence out there for trolling bots .
 
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Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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Read what he has written ... There is sufficient evidence out there for trolling bots .
This thread runs perfectly constructed industrial strength opinionation without the need for bots...Russian or otherwise...
But, I agree, he has a point, but to be honest Bots would make far fewer insults...
They would be programmed to make much more reasoned , polite posts than your normal patronising replies common on here.
Unless, ofcourse Bots have been trained to ride ebikes out of Whitby...if so I spotted one a while ago...bit wobbly tho...and none too steady on bike either..( I reckon Bots would be way better looking too, I was going to stop for a chat but thought it might make grandson cry)
 
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oldgroaner

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That wasn't what was in question the imputation was that one or more of our number were of that ilk
Read what he has written ... There is sufficient evidence out there for trolling bots .
Sent from my Moto G (5) using Tapatalk
 
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