Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

Nobody in the government has yet been able to explain how the UK can abide by that commitment while simultaneously leaving the customs union. The Irish, tired of being dismissed, patronised and ignored by the Brexiteers, will not let the government off the hook. If we reject December’s agreement, we reject any deal with the EU at all.

they don't have to, a lot of brexit voters don't care how the deal is done and even if one is done. Hard brexiters would rather no deal is done at all to make sure that all ties with the EU27 are severed. Soft brexiters want only a transition period which will maintain close ties with the EU27 by virtue of doing nothing. At the end of the transition period, we'll know how much more trade we'll do with WTO countries, then we'll know which brexit is the winner.

 

[oldgroaner]

Theresa May has a short memory,she has already signed up to the customs union......Sadly for the Brexiteers, the government has already signed up to an agreement with the EU that refers explicitly to the customs union. According to paragraph 49 of December’s joint report, the UK will “maintain full alignment with those rules of the … customs union which, now or in the future, support … the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 [Good Friday] agreement”. Nobody in the government has yet been able to explain how the UK can abide by that commitment while simultaneously leaving the customs union. The Irish, tired of being dismissed, patronised and ignored by the Brexiteers, will not let the government off the hook. If we reject December’s agreement, we reject any deal with the EU at all.
KudosDave

How dare you offer Facts where RELIGIOUS DOGMA is concerned?
This is HERESY AGAINST HOLY BREXIT!

Best skip town before the "Social Media Thought Police" come knocking on your door.
Which somehow reminds me, where's our own commissar lately? Did I hear Vietnam?

 

[oldgroaner]

they don't have to, a lot of brexit voters don't care how the deal is done and even if one is done. Hard brexiters would rather no deal is done at all to make sure that all ties with the EU27 are severed. Soft brexiters want only a transition period which will maintain close ties with the EU27 by virtue of doing nothing. At the end of the transition period, we'll know how much more trade we'll do with WTO countries, then we'll know which brexit is the winner.

Winner of what?
How about
"The Dog that was wagged by it's tail award, and fell off a cliff in the process?

 

[Danidl]

Theresa May has a short memory,she has already signed up to the customs union......Sadly for the Brexiteers, the government has already signed up to an agreement with the EU that refers explicitly to the customs union. According to paragraph 49 of December’s joint report, the UK will “maintain full alignment with those rules of the … customs union which, now or in the future, support … the all-island economy and the protection of the 1998 [Good Friday] agreement”. Nobody in the government has yet been able to explain how the UK can abide by that commitment while simultaneously leaving the customs union. The Irish, tired of being dismissed, patronised and ignored by the Brexiteers, will not let the government off the hook. If we reject December’s agreement, we reject any deal with the EU at all.
KudosDave

And our Leo is asking that same question again and again. For those of a strong stomach, the valadictory interview last Sunday on the Andrew Marr show, indicates that we in Ireland are not likely to let the fudge lie.
And Tommie, before you go off the deep end... I do not agree with other things .Mr Adams, said and can point out that John Hume, a contempory of his, always saw another and legitimate way to protest and effect change. History will in time demonstrate the relative value of each...

 

[Steb]

Sorry to disagree on one point, Pensions here are about 15th in the league table as other nations seem to manage quite nicely, unless of course people there aren't living as long as we do.
And I would point out that Brown raided the Gold reserves to pay of the debt we owed to America for arms on lend lease.
Just how do you make a connection between Gordon Brown and people putting their money into houses?
When they bought them it's highly doubtful that they were the "Workshy" who you suggest live in council flats, mostly they saw this as an easy money making scam, as Tory a priority as you can get.

I was referring to this raid by brown on pensions:
https://www.ftadviser.com/2014/05/07/opinion/tony-hazell/savers-could-have-lost-bn-in-brown-s-pensions-raid-WTQAjLW5DSRp9HUxwNZN7K/article.html
as soon as that happened every second fifty something with a lump sum bought a few buy to let properties instead of investing in a pension, skyrocketing previously affordable property prices and tying up more capital in bricks instead of productive enterprise. I think many other nations may have better pensions because they have more productive economies. unfortunately productivity is all about an intelligent, trained, disciplined workforce and the clever use of technology (and I cannot see the majority of the electorate who voted brexit ever fitting that mould)

 

[oldgroaner]

I was referring to this raid by brown on pensions:
https://www.ftadviser.com/2014/05/07/opinion/tony-hazell/savers-could-have-lost-bn-in-brown-s-pensions-raid-WTQAjLW5DSRp9HUxwNZN7K/article.html
as soon as that happened every second fifty something with a lump sum bought a few buy to let properties instead of investing in a pension, skyrocketing previously affordable property prices and tying up more capital in bricks instead of productive enterprise. I think many other nations may have better pensions because they have more productive economies. unfortunately productivity is all about an intelligent, trained, disciplined workforce and the clever use of technology (and I cannot see the majority of the electorate who voted brexit ever fitting that mould)

Have you conveniently forgotten what Osborne did with pensions?
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/pension-freedoms-to-be-extended-to-people-with-annuities
But you are right about the majority of the electorate that voted for Brexit.
They truly fell for the promises of better times , didn't they?
And as for the clever use of technology, only Foreign companies do that here (while we still have access to the EU Market) on any scale worthy of mention.
Investors here will continue to put their money abroad where the real slave labour and lack of Environmental Regulation operates. They just want a quick return and no come backs.

 

[tommie]

I cannot see the majority of the electorate who voted brexit ever fitting that mould)

care to expand on that?

and what mould would you see those voting brexit fitting into then?

 

[oldgroaner]

care to expand on that?

and what mould would you see those voting brexit fitting into then?

Not a difficult question is it?

If they are rich, pretty much business as usual only more so, easy money , a low tax regime , and your offshore bank accounts are safe.

If not becoming one of the Unfortunate Majority: lower benefit protection less workplace rights and lower wages, very handy for the rich to parasite on. Which is exactly what they mean by
"Taking back control"

 

[oldgroaner]

Amusing Sun article

Now why has the Sun of all papers majored on this man?

 

[tillson]

When they bought them it's highly doubtful that they were the "Workshy" who you suggest live in council flats, mostly they saw this as an easy money making scam, as Tory a priority as you can get.

Not easy money at all. Raising the capital to make the initial purchase requires hard work, sacrificing the flashy holidays, not buying the new Audi every two years and being generally responsible as far as money is concerned. Then the rewards for the previous years of financial sacrifice can be enjoyed, so you are very wrong, it's not a scam & it's not easy money.

However, I can understand that socialists despise anyone who has worked hard and saved. Much better in their eyes to sit on the sofa watching Kyle and waiting for the free money lorry to tip some tax payers cash on the front lawn.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Not easy money at all. Raising the capital to make the initial purchase requires hard work, sacrificing the flashy holidays, not buying the new Audi every two years and being generally responsible as far as money is concerned. Once the purchase has been made, the rewards for the previous years of financial sacrifice can be enjoyed, so you are very wrong, it's not a scam & it's not easy money.

However, I can understand that socialists despise anyone who has worked hard and saved. Much better in their eyes to sit on the sofa watching Kyle and waiting for the free money lorry to tip some tax payers cash on the front lawn.

tillson you have to wake up to the idea that you are the exception, the majority of property speculators did not go through what you went through to get there, their money in most cases fell into their lap, probably from the bank of mum and dad...

 

[oldgroaner]

Ann Soubry in the independent
"
This weekend, the Government was criticised from all sides for not making its position on Brexit clear.

From the newspaper reports, it looks like the Government doesn’t know what it’s doing. The stories get more embarrassing by the day. I frankly put my head in my hands when I read Angela Merkel needling Theresa May at Davos. If true, how embarrassing.

In response, people have told the Prime Minister to get a grip. They have told her to whip her Cabinet into shape and decide a negotiating position for the country. I personally want the Government to be robust with Europe and drive a hard bargain. I want us to leave the single market and customs union.
But I have now come to realise that the Government’s lack of decisiveness about the Brexit process is a symptom of something else and that lobbying the Prime Minister over and over again to leave the customs union might not give her the extra confidence that she needs.

Instead, the Prime Minister’s inability to make a decision is symptomatic of the fact that the Government does not have a vision for the UK post-Brexit. In fact, I don’t think it has a clear stated vision for the UK at all. Voters know that, of course, which is why they delivered her a shocking election result last year.

The upshot is that anyone passionate about getting a good Brexit result for the UK should refocus its efforts. We should not continue to tell the Government that the customs union or single market is a “red line”. Instead, we need to focus on selling the Government on a vision for the post-Brexit UK. If we manage to persuade it that our vision is the right one, then the rest will naturally follow.
Anna Soubry calls on Theresa May to take back control from hard brexiteers who are ‘not real Conservatives’
Here’s the vision that I think Brexiteers should all collectively pull behind: an inclusive but highly competitive UK. On one hand, we should make sure that the UK is the most attractive place in the world to do business. That means we should use Brexit as an opportunity to strip back needless regulation that suffocates our industries, like those in financial services. In some sense, we can become the Singapore or Hong Kong of Europe, something that the EU is petrified of."

You would have thought that after the Bankers crashed everything not so long ago "Deregulation" would be a dirty word! and frankly if the members of the Public who voted for Brexit get a taste of "Singaporisation" then trouble isn't a risk , it's an absolute certainty.

It's amazing how politicians have inverted the rage of the electorate at the way they have Governed and ignored them to the extent that Brexit was decided on. it and see the Brexit Vote as a Green light to play merry hell with their living standards and rights!
It was a warning you fools, not carte blanche to exploit the public even further!

Their arrogance is breathtaking!

The Public voted for better times, today, and an end too being ignored and Austerity, yet here you are ignoring them again and hell bent on ramming these lunatic schemes they never voted for down their throats.

Try to understand before one of us dies

Brexit was a warning to you that you have to do change your ways, listen to them for once, and straight away make their lives better, and you had better deliver!
And just what are you doing? the very opposite!

 

[tillson]

Ann Soubry in the independent.

I know Anna Souffle'. I once worked with her before she became an MP, then a few years later we travelled to London by bus and walked from the bus stop to Trafalgar Square with Tony Benn. I've not seen her for a few years, but unless she has changed, she always seemed level headed and competent. I certainly wouldn't be dismissive regarding any of her thoughts or opinions. She would probably make a better PM than Tresemme', but that isn't setting the bar very high.

 

[oldgroaner]

Not easy money at all. Raising the capital to make the initial purchase requires hard work, sacrificing the flashy holidays, not buying the new Audi every two years and being generally responsible as far as money is concerned. Then the rewards for the previous years of financial sacrifice can be enjoyed, so you are very wrong, it's not a scam & it's not easy money.

However, I can understand that socialists despise anyone who has worked hard and saved. Much better in their eyes to sit on the sofa watching Kyle and waiting for the free money lorry to tip some tax payers cash on the front lawn.

You really are out of touch with reality aren't you?
Getting on the property ladder really only applies to people who have no need to make sacrifices as they are already well situated financially.
" sacrificing the flashy holidays, not buying the new Audi every two years "
How do people on Zero hours contracts juggling two or three part time temporary jobs ever get on the Property ladder?

Ye Gods man, people who make sacrifices are often in work and make REAL sacrifices of eating less so the kids get fed and clothed never mind flashy cars!
And a whole class of pensioners have to decide whether to freeze or eat in the winter!
"Then the rewards for the previous years of financial sacrifice can be enjoyed, so you are very wrong, it's not a scam & it's not easy money."

Sorry I'm laughing at the notion that "not having holidays abroad and new Audis is a sacrifice"
Have you ever been hungry? no of course not, while "making sacrifices " and not having your expensive foreign holidays or new Audis"?

Joke of the day there on Planet tillson.
"However, I can understand that socialists despise anyone who has worked hard and saved. Much better in their eyes to sit on the sofa watching Kyle and waiting for the free money lorry to tip some tax payers cash on the front lawn."

How condescending to imagine yourself superior to a Socialist because you have suffered the trauma of not having fancy holidays and Audis so you could buy property?
Lets face reality, you saw property as a great rip off and cut back on excessive spending to get into it, didn't you.
Not a virtue, just a choice, and certainly not a "sacrifice"
Your unwillingness to pay Tax is interesting too, in case someone is taking your money?
Obviously that must qualify them to be stereotype with this
" to sit on the sofa watching Kyle and waiting for the free money lorry to tip some tax payers cash on the front lawn."

 

[oldgroaner]

I know Anna Souffle'. I once worked with her before she became an MP, then a few years later we travelled to London by bus and walked from the bus stop to Trafalgar Square with Tony Benn. I've not seen her for a few years, but unless she has changed, she always seemed level headed and competent. I certainly wouldn't be dismissive regarding any of her thoughts or opinions.

No surprise there tillson.

 

[tillson]

You really are out of touch with reality aren't you?

Errr No.

How do people on Zero hours contracts juggling two or three part time temporary jobs ever get on the Property ladder?

They work, they improve themselves, they become a more valuable commodity in the employment market. That leads to better wages.

Ye Gods man, people who make sacrifices are often in work and make REAL sacrifices of eating less so the kids get fed and clothed never mind flashy cars!

This one is interesting. Did anyone ever hold a gun to someone's head and say, "You must have more children than you can afford support, or else I will blow the top of your head off? No they didn't. This is an example of living beyond one's means. If they go down the route of having children, however many that may be, who do they think is going to pay for and support their children? Who do they expect to pay the considerable cost of running a family? Clearly you are suggesting that these people have embarked on a breading enterprise for which they have no financial plan or means of funding. It is a self inflicted problem.

And a whole class of pensioners have to decide whether to freeze or eat in the winter!

This one is disgusting, I will agree. Prisoners should be forced to turn handles in their cells which in turn are coupled to generators. The power could then be used to light and heat the homes of pensioners.

Your unwillingness to pay Tax is interesting too, in case someone is taking your money?"

I'm not sure where this one came from. I've paid tax since I was 16. I pay tax on my wages, I pay tax on my business proceeds, I pay tax on my property rental income, I pay tax on my other investments and savings, I pay a lot of tax on house purchases & I pay tax on most of my domestic purchases. I pay tax. I don't enjoy the experience, but I recognise that I have an obligation to pay taxes, so I get on and pay. I don't like to see some of that money then loaded onto the free money truck and delivered to some able bodied, bone idle twat who has no intention of working, ever.​

Have you ever been hungry?

Yes, I'm hungry right now, so I'm off to eat a horse sandwiched between two pi$$ stained mattresses.

 

[Steb]

care to expand on that?

and what mould would you see those voting brexit fitting into then?

care to expand on that?

and what mould would you see those voting brexit fitting into then?

The kind of person who blames their misfortune on eu immigration or tries to convince others to do so are a very very long way away from what Americans call ownership,doing anything themselves to improve their livelihood.

 

[oldgroaner]

Errr No.




They work, they improve themselves, they become a more valuable commodity in the employment market. That leads to better wages.



This one is interesting. Did anyone ever hold a gun to someone's head and say, "You must have more children than you can afford support, or else I will blow the top of your head off? No they didn't. This is an example of living beyond one's means. If they go down the route of having children, however many that may be, who do they think is going to pay for and support their children? Who do they expect to pay the considerable cost of running a family? Clearly you are suggesting that these people have embarked on a breading enterprise for which they have no financial plan or means of funding. It is a self inflicted problem.




This one is disgusting, I will agree. Prisoners should be forced to turn handles in their cells which in turn are coupled to generators. The power could then be used to light and heat the homes of pensioners.

I'm not sure where this one came from. I've paid tax since I was 16. I pay tax on my wages, I pay tax on my business proceeds, I pay tax on my property rental income, I pay tax on my other investments and savings, I pay a lot of tax on house purchases & I pay tax on most of my domestic purchases. I pay tax. I don't enjoy the experience, but I recognise that I have an obligation to pay taxes, so I get on and pay. I don't like to see some of that money then loaded onto the free money truck and delivered to some able bodied, bone idle twat who has no intention of working, ever.​

Yes, I'm hungry right now, so I'm off to eat a horse sandwiched between two pi$$ stained mattresses



.

People trapped in the Gig economy are simply being exploited with no hope of improvement, even now the government is "Talking" about improving their conditions. How you imagine this will led to higher wages is a mystery.

your fiction about the workshy is just that
"
How big is the problem of families on benefits where generations have never worked?

Patterns of work in working-age households.
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation published a study in December testing whether there were three generations of the same family that had never worked. Despite dogged searching, researchers were unable to find such families. If they exist, they account for a minuscule fraction of workless people. Under 1% of workless households might have two generations who have never worked – about 15,000 households in the UK. Families with three such generations will therefore be even fewer.

The graphic shows this broken down. Importantly, families experiencing long-term worklessness remained committed to the value of work and preferred to be in jobs rather than on benefits. There was no evidence of "a culture of worklessness" – values, attitudes and behaviours discouraging employment and encouraging welfare dependence – in the families being passed down the generations. The long-term worklessness of parents in these families was a result of complex problems (particularly related to ill-health) associated with living in long-term and deep poverty. "

Enjoy you sandwich and your cosy Urban Myth about scroungers ,who are it seems are rare as actual evidence of the benefits of Brexit.

 

[oldgroaner]

So the first Briton were black and had blue eyes!



This isn't going to go down too well in certain quarters, but a splendid bit of scientific reconstruction, so well done the team.
If the movement of humanity was indeed out of Africa, this would seem confirmation of that theory.
And it is absolute confirmation that immigration has always been with us

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Express
How to put spin on the terms of an agreement
"
Brussels plots to PUNISH UK during Brexit transition period - including NO VETO on fishing
THE EU is plotting to punish Britain during the proposed brexit transition period, with the UK forced to obey regulations and face tariffs despite being shorn of any veto over its fishing waters."

Where does the "Punishing" come in? we either agree of don't get the transition period that they don't have to grant!