Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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From the Guardian.
"
Jacob Rees-Mogg and the shadowy group of Tories shaping Brexit
Powerful European Research Group accused of misusing funds – and tearing Conservatives apart
It has no website, no public list of members, and it is accused of misusing taxpayers’ money. But despite its shadowy status, Jacob Rees-Mogg’s European Research Group is powerful enough to shape Theresa May’s Brexit policy – and has been accused of tearing the Conservative party apart.

The ERG, and its chairman Rees-Mogg, are vigorous proponents of a hard Brexit approach. They have been at the centre of recent Tory disagreements, and operate in tandem with junior ministers in the Brexit department, who in turn used to be at the top of the ERG.

This week, Rees-Mogg has attacked Philip Hammond’s Treasury and helped push Theresa May into ruling out membership of any customs union post-Brexit.

On Tuesday morning the leading pro-European Conservative backbencher Anna Soubry expressed her dismay at the group’s influence. “It feels like – and I think there’s evidence to support this – Theresa is in hock to these 35 hard Brexiteers,” she said, in a clear allusion to the ERG. “They don’t represent my party, but more importantly they don’t represent people who voted leave.”

She had made a similar case on Monday night, telling Newsnight: “Unless Theresa stands up and sees off these people she is in real danger of losing huge swathes of not just the parliamentary party but the Conservative party.”

Now the Labour party has complained about the way it operates, saying that it is in breach of parliamentary rules in the way it uses public funds, which are supposed to support MPs with objective research rather than promoting partisan ends.

The ERG’s funds are allocated by a group of Conservative MPs. They pay £2,000 a year from their taxpayer-funded expenses to fund a researcher, who pushes out private briefing notes. It also shares information and lines to take in media appearances via a closed WhatsApp group, now the principal way to organise a clique of MPs.

The number of MPs who back it financially amount to 20 to 25 a year, producing an income of a little short of £50,000, according to publicly available information.

Subversive, the lot of them!
And just as Teresa May is saying what a bad influence Social Media are, here are these villainous characters using it!
 
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tillson

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People trapped in the Gig economy are simply being exploited with no hope of improvement, even now the government is "Talking" about improving their conditions. How you imagine this will led to higher wages is a mystery.

your fiction about the workshy is just that
"
How big is the problem of families on benefits where generations have never worked?


Patterns of work in working-age households.
The Joseph Rowntree Foundation published a study in December testing whether there were three generations of the same family that had never worked. Despite dogged searching, researchers were unable to find such families. If they exist, they account for a minuscule fraction of workless people. Under 1% of workless households might have two generations who have never worked – about 15,000 households in the UK. Families with three such generations will therefore be even fewer.

The graphic shows this broken down. Importantly, families experiencing long-term worklessness remained committed to the value of work and preferred to be in jobs rather than on benefits. There was no evidence of "a culture of worklessness" – values, attitudes and behaviours discouraging employment and encouraging welfare dependence – in the families being passed down the generations. The long-term worklessness of parents in these families was a result of complex problems (particularly related to ill-health) associated with living in long-term and deep poverty. "

Enjoy you sandwich and your cosy Urban Myth about scroungers ,who are it seems are rare as actual evidence of the benefits of Brexit.
Maybe they want to work in the Gig economy, I know several people who do and it suits them. They wouldn’t have it any other way.

I don’t know what that bit of cut & paste from the ramblings of Fruit Gum man’s foundation has to do with anything. There are workshy layabouts all over the place. You usually find them at food banks, doctors surgeries, town centres and of course dole offices. All that the clowns at these “foundations” care about is keeping the wheels on the free money truck, because it makes them glow inside.

There is no such thing as food poverty either, however not being able to afford to dine at McDonalds, KFC & Burger King for every meal is a reality. You can buy a big net of veg from Aldi for pence. What’s wrong with that?Food banks enable cash, otherwise destined to be spent on food, to be diverted to higher priorities such as fags, alcohol, lotto cards and slots. That’s the reality.
 

oldgroaner

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Maybe they want to work in the Gig economy, I know several people who do and it suits them. They wouldn’t have it any other way.

I don’t know what that bit of cut & paste from the ramblings of Fruit Gum man’s foundation has to do with anything. There are workshy layabouts all over the place. You usually find them at food banks, doctors surgeries, town centres and of course dole offices. All that the clowns at these “foundations” care about is keeping the wheels on the free money truck, because it makes them glow inside.

There is no such thing as food poverty either, however not being able to afford to dine at McDonalds, KFC & Burger King for every meal is a reality. You can buy a big net of veg from Aldi for pence. What’s wrong with that?Food banks enable cash, otherwise destined to be spent on food, to be diverted to higher priorities such as fags, alcohol, lotto cards and slots. That’s the reality.
I really must visit your planet one day, tillson!, perhaps you could visit the planet Earth too
Oh I beg your pardon, it appears you do spend a lot of time in food banks, labour exchanges and doctor's surgeries to check this is a true situation.
And of course the Rowntree Foundation hasn't been approved by the Brexit thought Police, has it?
 
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Woosh

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But despite its shadowy status, Jacob Rees-Mogg’s European Research Group is powerful enough to shape Theresa May’s Brexit policy – and has been accused of tearing the Conservative party apart.
you give to JRM and his band of fundamentalists too much power.
The people with real power are the EU apparatchik and the multinational banks.
I compare brexit to electron tunneling. Hard brexit has higher energy barrier, soft brexit less, but still a barrier. Whichever brexit, there will be a cost to pay for taking back control.

hard brexit vs soft brexit:
 

Steb

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you give to JRM and his band of fundamentalists too much power.
The people with real power are the EU apparatchik and the multinational banks.
I compare brexit to electron tunneling. Hard brexit has higher energy barrier, soft brexit less, but still a barrier. Whichever brexit, there will be a cost to pay for taking back control.

hard brexit vs soft brexit:
that would have been a knockout on the side of the bus ("brexit is - like quantum tunnelling - about crossing a barrier you shouldn't normally be able to cross").
 
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flecc

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that would have been a knockout on the side of the bus ("brexit is - like quantum tunnelling - about crossing a barrier you shouldn't normally be able to cross").
Would have earned more respect though!
.
 
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flecc

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There was no evidence of "a culture of worklessness" –
There's actually 11 millions of us, 17% of the population, and we're quite smug and arrogant about it too. We get welfare benefits and even get privileged treatment from the government.

We call it retirement. :)
.
 
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Woosh

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really... you're still using the "taking back control" line.
yes, that's what brexit is really about.
Would we do better than now?
what our future governments would do when we have repatriated previously shared sovereignty is anyone's guess.
 

oldgroaner

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yes, that's what brexit is really about.
Would we do better than now?
what our future governments would do when we have repatriated previously shared sovereignty is anyone's guess.
Share sovereignty with someone else over new trade deals, and be subservient to the united states and united states of Europe too!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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yes, that's what brexit is really about.
Would we do better than now?
what our future governments would do when we have repatriated previously shared sovereignty is anyone's guess.
WE HAVE NEVER GIVEN UP OUR SOVEREIGNTY, or even shared it!

Have you not realised this yet!

As we keep saying, what Brexit is about... is nonsense, pedalled by fear mongers playing on ignorance. The hopes of the leave voters can't be delivered because they never lost control, so they can't get back something they never lost.

You really do need to stop reading the Daily Mail, and look at some actual facts.

 

oldgroaner

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Share sovereignty with someone else over new trade deals, and be subservient to the united states and united states of Europe too!
And of course persecute the workforce into subservience.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk


Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
 
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Kudoscycles

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I only learnt today that Theresa May is a Libra,I am married to a Libra....lovely lady,so kind and considerate to others,but making decisions,no!
Probably that is why my wife is married to a Cancerean.
I want Rees-Mogg as PM,so that we can finish with Brexit and get back to normal lives....we will leave in March 2019,no transition,it will of course be a trading disaster for both UK and EU and maybe force both sides to quickly achieve some sensible deal,with May is will flounder on for years.
KudosDave
 
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flecc

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.we will leave in March 2019,no transition,it will of course be a trading disaster for both UK and EU and maybe force both sides to quickly achieve some sensible deal
That once again makes the mistake of comparing the UK to the EU. The correct comparison is 1 country to 27, the total amounts of trading being roughly equal each way. Their loss of the equal trade is divided by 27, ours is wholely borne by us.

So crashing out it won't be a disaster for the EU. The countries of the EU have already experienced the same loss, when the 2008 recession occurred, they have ridden it easily and their economies are now doing much better.

Our 2008 loss was nothing like as big as our total of trading with the EU, so crashing out will certainly be a disaster for us, on top of our economy not doing well compared to the rest of the world.
.
 
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tillson

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That once again makes the mistake of comparing the UK to the EU. The correct comparison is 1 country to 27, the total amounts of trading being roughly equal each way. Their loss of the equal trade is divided by 27, ours is wholely borne by us.

So crashing out it won't be a disaster for the EU. The countries of the EU have already experienced the same loss, when the 2008 recession occurred, they have ridden it easily and their economies are now doing much better.

Our 2008 loss was nothing like as big as our total of trading with the EU, so crashing out will certainly be a disaster for us, on top of our economy not doing well compared to the rest of the world.
.
But all 27 are not equal with many having been bribed into membership and just along for the ride and the free money. The effects will impact on the real EU, Germany and France and not all the side show nations.
 

Woosh

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Our 2008 loss was nothing like as big as our total of trading with the EU, so crashing out will certainly be a disaster for us, on top of our economy not doing well compared to the rest of the world.
we are not going to crash out.
At present, 87% of our trade is done within the SM and CU framework. I doubt much will change at the end of the 'implementation period'.
we'll kick the ball further down the road, then a dose of reality will take its course.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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you give to JRM and his band of fundamentalists too much power.
The people with real power are the EU apparatchik and the multinational banks.
I compare brexit to electron tunneling. Hard brexit has higher energy barrier, soft brexit less, but still a barrier. Whichever brexit, there will be a cost to pay for taking back control.

hard brexit vs soft brexit:
The Problem with your diagram is the Brexit voters see the waveform on the left as white light, and the Gray line as a Prism
They aren't expecting the result you postulate.
To make them happy they are expecting all the colours of the Rainbow on the right of the picture (plus Unicorns too )
Not what appears to be shown a very weak glow in your diagram.
 
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oldgroaner

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But all 27 are not equal with many having been bribed into membership and just along for the ride and the free money. The effects will impact on the real EU, Germany and France and not all the side show nations.
As we were bribed with rebates and special get out favours regarding Workers Rights and conditions and ever Closer union to stay in you mean? and now we are to join the side show nations too.
Great strategy.....NOT
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
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WE HAVE NEVER GIVEN UP OUR SOVEREIGNTY, or even shared it!

Have you not realised this yet!

As we keep saying, what Brexit is about... is nonsense, pedalled by fear mongers playing on ignorance. The hopes of the leave voters can't be delivered because they never lost control, so they can't get back something they never lost.

You really do need to stop reading the Daily Mail, and look at some actual facts.

You have had two written warnings now about brandishing facts in the very face of these Brexit supporters, how dare you!
This is heresy against Holy Brexit.

They will paint the word "Remoaner" in Whitewash on your showroom window, and you know what happens next!:eek:

An Envelope with three white Feathers! :(
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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we are not going to crash out.
At present, 87% of our trade is done within the SM and CU framework. I doubt much will change at the end of the 'implementation period'.
we'll kick the ball further down the road, then a dose of reality will take its course.
The Public won't be throwing your ball back, it is more likely to be a brick!
 
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