Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

the deals that TM and her team sign in China are ordinary trade deals (like purchase orders), not the kind of 'trade deals' forbidden by EU treaties.
Apparently, our government is looking at EFTA for a possible model of customs union.

My point is that they are being presented to the Public by the Press to give the appearance of non compliance with our agreement and responsibilities to the EU.
My post was intended to indicate that, and they way the news is appearing in the Press is truly Fake News and Propaganda, to indicate we are "operating from a position of Strength"

Great fun to keep the Brexiteers on side, but nevertheless this sort of posturing will harm our negotiating position.
The intended impression is that we are thumbing our noses at the EU and (Showing our right to Sovereignty"
The wording "Trade Deals" was intended to be misleading and should have been "Contracts" not "Deals" or some other less contentious word used
No doubt many of the Public will fall for it!

This Fake news is intended to divert the attention of the Loony Rees Moggy faction, and the less mentally agile among the General Public.

 

[Woosh]

Great fun to keep the Brexiteers on side, but nevertheless this sort of posturing will harm our negotiating position.

I can't see what the journo hacks at the Express could do to harm our negotiating position.
Did you watch QT last night?
Tim Stanley @ the DT made me smile, he did a pretty good job at boring the hard brexiters in the audience when he started talking about the importance of carrying out brexit as defence of our democracy.

 

[oldtom]

Recognise anybody here? The only one I can identify is Mr B Ellend, intent on causing mayhem and upsetting a group of normally well-behaved students:

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1697660196921776

Tom

 

[tommie]

...sorry the pesky autocorrect struck again. .. what I think I was trying to say that in travelling the miserable dark dangerous road between Lurgan and Lisburn , I was thinking how with such roads you are not being well served... These are your major population areas and highly loyalist as well, so if the state cannot get the roads right in those areas well.....

Ahh, next time join the Motorway (M1) at Lisburn, roads are Free up here btw!, (none of your dick turpin toll booths trying to pay off that EU loan at every corner here) and its straight up to the Craigavon area in a couple of minutes, and you won`t have to endure those nasty pro union villages with their hideous british emblems.
However, delighted to see you and your fellow countrymen avail of the exchange rate spending your euros up here, we`ll give you a much better deal than those rip-off Free State stores
(btw how did it ever get the name Free?!!?)....

 

[Kudoscycles]

Theresa May said today that she was confident of achieving a free trade deal with the EU,within seconds she said that she also hoped to achieve an FTA with China.
That shows May’s lack of understanding of the way the EU thinks....the EU have spent decades achieving a tariff wall protecting the EU manufacturers,they are hardly likely to give an FTA between the EU and UK if there is any possibility of the UK being a tariff free conduit with goods from the one country it most fears,namely China.
The Welsh secretary,Jones,pointed out that an FTA with China would kill the Welsh steel industry and an FTA with New Zealand would kill off Welsh lamb,Fox doesn’t seem to realise that FTAs are a two way street,they can do a lot of damage to the UK inefficient industries.
David Davis is not a negotiator ,just a messenger,what about replacing Davis with Rees-Mogg,hehe??
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Theresa May said today that she was confident of achieving a free trade deal with the EU,within seconds she said that she also hoped to achieve an FTA with China.
That shows May’s lack of understanding of the way the EU thinks....the EU have spent decades achieving a tariff wall protecting the EU manufacturers,they are hardly likely to give an FTA between the EU and UK if there is any possibility of the UK being a tariff free conduit with goods from the one country it most fears,namely China.
The Welsh secretary,Jones,pointed out that an FTA with China would kill the Welsh steel industry and an FTA with New Zealand would kill off Welsh lamb,Fox doesn’t seem to realise that FTAs are a two way street,they can do a lot of damage to the UK inefficient industries.
David Davis is not a negotiator ,just a messenger,what about replacing Davis with Rees-Mogg,hehe??
KudosDave

I get the distinct impression that May imagines she can say and do whatever she likes and the EU will simply have to fall in line and accommodate that.
And she seems to have the same level of cognisance of the situation as the rest of the Raving loony band of politicians charged with making Brexit work on behalf of the UK.

 

[oldgroaner]

Theresa May said today that she was confident of achieving a free trade deal with the EU,within seconds she said that she also hoped to achieve an FTA with China.
That shows May’s lack of understanding of the way the EU thinks....the EU have spent decades achieving a tariff wall protecting the EU manufacturers,they are hardly likely to give an FTA between the EU and UK if there is any possibility of the UK being a tariff free conduit with goods from the one country it most fears,namely China.
The Welsh secretary,Jones,pointed out that an FTA with China would kill the Welsh steel industry and an FTA with New Zealand would kill off Welsh lamb,Fox doesn’t seem to realise that FTAs are a two way street,they can do a lot of damage to the UK inefficient industries.
David Davis is not a negotiator ,just a messenger,what about replacing Davis with Rees-Mogg,hehe??
KudosDave

That would be nearly as good a decision as Lincoln's to go to the Opera.

 

[Danidl]

Ahh, next time join the Motorway (M1) at Lisburn, roads are Free up here btw!, (none of your dick turpin toll booths trying to pay off that EU loan at every corner here) and its straight up to the Craigavon area in a couple of minutes, and you won`t have to endure those nasty pro union villages with their hideous british emblems.
However, delighted to see you and your fellow countrymen avail of the exchange rate spending your euros up here, we`ll give you a much better deal than those rip-off Free State stores
(btw how did it ever get the name Free?!!?)....

I had occasion to go to the craigavon TV repair centre, which with Irish logic is in Lurgan. It's a nice operation and does the in warranty repairs for all the major brands and for all Ireland.. how is it going to fare if it involves exporting and importing electronics to and from the EU. ?
Going up in daylight i went through those quaint villages from Banbridge through Portadown, but I needed better roads in the dark and rain.. and as it was an internal warranty repair, Currys had to pick up the tab...

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Independent
"
Brexit to go ahead even if Government’s own analysis shows it will make Britain poorer, Theresa May suggests
Prime Minister also rebuffs attempts to get her to set out her plans for 'end state' relationship with EU, amid renewed Cabinet splits
Interviewed before leaving China, at the close of her three-day trip, the Prime Minister vowed she would not be deflected even by stark forecasts of an economic price to be paid.

“It’s important, of course, that the Government looks at the analysis that is available,” she told ITV News.
“But, of course, it’s also important that the government does what the British people want us to do — the British people want us to leave the European Union and that is what we will be doing.”

This Particular individual "British Person" actually doesn't want to leave the EU,
Or lose financially because someone else voted for Brexit.
Not of course that anyone in power gives a Damn about that, or the Millions of others who feel the same way.
My suggestion is that there be a Register of names of those who voted for Brexit, and they alone should take responsibility for the costs of their decision.
Why not? they bought the lies, let them pay for them!

 

[daveboy]

From the Independent
"
Brexit to go ahead even if Government’s own analysis shows it will make Britain poorer, Theresa May suggests
Prime Minister also rebuffs attempts to get her to set out her plans for 'end state' relationship with EU, amid renewed Cabinet splits
Interviewed before leaving China, at the close of her three-day trip, the Prime Minister vowed she would not be deflected even by stark forecasts of an economic price to be paid.

“It’s important, of course, that the Government looks at the analysis that is available,” she told ITV News.
“But, of course, it’s also important that the government does what the British people want us to do — the British people want us to leave the European Union and that is what we will be doing.”

This Particular individual "British Person" actually doesn't want to leave the EU,
Or lose financially because someone else voted for Brexit.
Not of course that anyone in power gives a Damn about that, or the Millions of others who feel the same way.
My suggestion is that there be a Register of names of those who voted for Brexit, and they alone should take responsibility for the costs of their decision.
Why not? they bought the lies, let them pay for them!

In that case everybody that votes Tory should pay for private health care and anybody that votes for the green party should pay all the carbon tax...
etc...ect

 

[oldgroaner]

In that case everybody that votes Tory should pay for private health care and anybody that votes for the green party should pay all the carbon tax...
etc...ect

I'l put it in my Manifesto.... And get them to pay for Austerity too....should be a crowd puller

 

[flecc]

In that case everybody that votes Tory should pay for private health care and anybody that votes for the green party should pay all the carbon tax...
etc...ect

But those are internal matters, so all voters are subject due to our internal democracy.

Leaving the EU is a matter of our external relationship, not subject to our national internal democracy. Ergo all voters should not be subject to it, and I for one refuse to co-operate in any way with Brexit and will take any opportunity to sabotage it.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

May has to go....she is still a remainer....if we are to leave our PM and negotiating team should be committed leavers.
I am still a remainer and would prefer that we stay in the EU and forget this Brexit trauma. But if we are to leave then May because of her lack of commitment will achieve such a bad deal that we will be in the worst possible state,still answerable to the EU but without any power to influence the decisions.
If May is to stay she should honestly campaign for us staying in the EU,a second referendum may not produce a remain vote,because so many do not like the way the EU is treating us.
We are a proud nation and May/Davis are selling us short because of their ‘fence sitting’. Even Nick Clegg an arch remainer is starting to agree with Rees-Mogg and clean break in March 2019.
I think Rees-Mogg as PM would force the EU to realise that their is a danger we will crash out and free of EU tariffs,the EU will be very worried to have the UK tariff free on their doorstep,that could do serious damage to European businesses.
If we don’t have a leaver in charge and Brexit fails badly(which I think it will) then leavers post Brexit will blame us remoaners as being the reason why Brexit failed and arguments will carry on for decades.
There is a petition gaining a lot of support to force the government to take a harder line with the EU,if that petition gains 100,000 votes it will force a discussion in parliament,I think that may be the catalyst for the Tories to look for a new leader.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

In that case everybody that votes Tory should pay for private health care and anybody that votes for the green party should pay all the carbon tax...
etc...ect

How dare you bring such logic into this discussion! We have happily bumbled along for 27,000+ posts without ever having to resort to sheer logic so have you even considered the damage this might cause to those perfectly illogical arguments that have shaped and directed the progress of the thread thus far?

Tom

 

[Woosh]

I think Rees-Mogg as PM would force the EU to realise that their is a danger we will crash out and free of EU tariffs,the EU will be very worried to have the UK tariff free on their doorstep,that could do serious damage to European businesses.

if we crash out without a deal, we just hurt ourselves economically a little more. More companies will decamp to the EU27 and take a lot of assets out of the country.
That is exactly what some of the EU27 members would like to see.

 

[flecc]

so many do not like the way the EU is treating us.

Justice for the poor way the UK has always treated the EU. We've been asking for it for years and are rightly being put in our place at last.

We are a proud nation

And just what comes before a fall?
.

 

[anotherkiwi]

We are a proud nation

Despite being invaded by the Romans, Germanic peoples, Vikings and Norsemen that came from Sweden, Denmark and Norway, the French and the Dutch? Lots of EU blood flows through the veins of an Englishman...

 

[Woosh]

And just what comes before a fall?
.

two world wars and one world cup.

 

[flecc]

two world wars and one world cup.

We lost the second world war and would have been overrun if the Americans and Russians hadn't rescued us from that fate.
.

 

[Woosh]

We lost the second world war and would have been overrun if the Americans and Russians hadn't rescued us from that fate.
.

still got one world cup.