Debt is an intrinsic part of this little island's economy's raison d'etre. Unfortunately we're not Germany or Scandinavia, we don't invent and produce truly useful stuff. Instead we rely on financial services which is all about packaging and servicing debt. And I want a tesla and don't think it's reasonable to wait until I have 50k in cash.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
Phase 2 Annex to EU Council's phase 1 recommendations:
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/annex_commissions_recommendation_20-12-2017.pdf
https://ec.europa.eu/commission/sites/beta-political/files/annex_commissions_recommendation_20-12-2017.pdf
Ouch!
Paragraph 18 in precis: We'll be allowed to attend to hear what we are going to be told to do, so long as we keep our mouths shut during the meeting.
The true meaning of Brexit.
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I agree with you. We had a great deal of industrial talent and were able to invent and manufacture great things. Unfortunately, those talented people were looked down on, ridiculed, undervalued and not given the professional respect that they deserve. Now nobody wants to do those jobs, wanting to plan parties, win the X Factor or chase lawsuits instead.
As you say, our main industry seems to consists of borrowing a pound off me at an interest rate of 1.5% and then lending the same pound to 57 other people at a rate of 5.5% to buy Teslas! This is fine, but I don't want to hear any moaning when it all goes tits up, which it surely will.
Why on earth would anyone in the UK buy a Tesla is beyond me when you have this:
In WW2 the Germans thought Colchester's manufacturing was worthy of bombing. Now with no Lathe Company or Paxmans the local Tory council leader's ambition is to make the town into a 'Roman Disney World'...
Yosser will be proud
Morgan summing up the British problem, always looking back to the past.
The past we can do nothing about, the present is what we are stuck with, only the future has any value since we can influence what that will be.
If only the British would learn that simple lesson.
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In principal I agree (and would argue that it has already gone tits up, badly, several times, and that the banking debt makes anything I borrow seem trivial). In practice (to sound really mature) we all take on some debt, responsibly, it's time versus money, if one waits until one can afford everything one wants to do in cash there will be a lot one hasn't done by the time death comes knocking
I remember using a Colchester lathe as an apprentice a long time ago. For some reason, I made no connection with the town of Colchester, but now it seems obvious. As I remember, they were good lathes, but like everything else, I suspect the company suffered from a lack of investment to develop manufacturing technology, hence it's withered and died.
A Roman Disney World? Well at least someone dressed as a Micky Mouse Centurion will command a greater level respect with the British people than an oily man using his hands to operating a lathe. Dignity for the people of Colchester at last.
In practice though I'd argue that this is a mistake, as illustrated by my own life. Very early I dabbled with a little credit but by my early 20s largely stopped doing that, instead for everything other than property mortgages saving first.
That's had three effects though life:
1) I've not being paying interest charges on credit.
2) My saving creating a capital pool has enabled me not to insure for anything other than compulsory vehicle insurance and property structure only. That's saved me many thousands of pounds over the last 60 years.
3) My timed use of capital enabled me to pay mortgages very early, saving vast sums in interest. I first bought a bungalow for my parents, later when I could a flat for myself. Overpaying a little each month on the bungalow plus throwing in bonuses and other extras meant its 25 year mortgage was cleared in 12 years. Then throwing both payments and extras at the flat meant that 25 year mortgage was cleared in 16 years. Remember that most of the mortgage we pay is interest, avoid that and it gets paid very quickly with far less money.
I've no idea what the total of my savings in credit and mortgage interest and insurance is, but it's obviously a small fortune of very many thousands, and as a result I haven't gone without, far from it.
I've owned/used over 30 cars and 6 motorbikes, almost all new, and a boat kept at a south coast marina. I've had total property security for much of my life and a comfortable capital reserve. I was able to retire at 54 years old since I had the value of the bungalow when my parents passed away and have been retired in comfort now for 27 years.
And all of this on mundane ordinary jobs. I've been a motor mechanic, a soldier for six years, done a factory job for a while, a service engineer and held some unexalted management positions later in my working life, twice turning down higher promotion offers.
So I reckon that those who use credit and avoidable insurance have got it wrong, they are enriching others to their own eventual disadvantage, something I've avoided to good effect.
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That has remarkable similarities to my financial life plan, but I have always bought a high quality car of about a year old and run it for 10 years, hence I’ve not had as many as you. I have always viewed the vast sums people spend servicing debts as wasted money. It must run into tens of thousands, or more, over a lifetime. Everything has to be paid for some time, why not just make sure you can pay for it at time of purchase rather than paying and then paying finance charges.
I will be retiring in May 2018 aged 56, so my plan has taken two years longer than yours to execute. Other than doing a small amount of work on my business, which is more akin to a hobby, I have absolutely no intention of taking up paid employment ever again. Voluntary work and personal interests from May 2018 for me.
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I can see where you're coming from and that it worked for you. However, here's an example of the opposite. Back in 2009,while quite sure I'm making a terrible mistake, I bought a family home in Wimbledon by taking out as much debt as I could afford. In 2016 I sold it for almost twice as much. It had much to do with luck, and frankly nothing with any business sense on my part. But life is full of unintended consequences and I find if I'm moderately careful and budget things mostly work out ok
Me too, the PDF linked to below under the heading Muddy Puddles Project shows what I've been up to this Autumn.
http://www.flecc.co.uk/m/FSW_newsletter_12. 2017.pdf
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The Aero and 3 wheeler are bang upto date...the " four" stuck in around 1940..I went on tour of factory and was amazed just how old technology is on 4...Leaf springs, live axle but not 5 linked as on live Westfield. Sliding pillar front suspension , handles awful but full orde books. Wouldn't have a,4 but both 3 wheeler and Aero rather different...
Cant fault build process tho...very hands on by real craftsmen.
And still around in the pseudo-car dual cab pickups today. I'm suffering these on my Mitsubishi L200 dual-cab, the treacherous rear handling is unbelievable, and that's from someone with years of truck driving experience.
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You are being ingenuous as you are prone to be, as you are well aware that any sudden change as you are suggesting would result in wholesale mayhem, breaking up of marriages, and throwing thousands out of work, and many people would fall immediately into poverty.
The Principle you expound is fine, sudden application of it an absolute disaster, but then you voted for Brexit didn't you?
I credit you with enough intelligence to realise the harm that will do, and since you have no sympathy with these people who will suffer, till it bites you in the butt from "knock on effects" (and there will be plenty)
You will think that's OK, just Collateral Damage.
Almost certainly not!
Moreover, if you asked across the EU or, indeed, right across the international community, the answer would be the same. It ranks as one of the greatest peacetime acts of stupidity ever committed by any country.
Tom
Good Grief! are you actually making the astonishing assertion that there EVER WAS?
And do you by any chance have the name of this worthy? we should invite him/ her to join the Forum.