Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

William Keegan, economics scribe for 'The Guardian', has a new book coming out so what an opportune moment to garner some publicity for that venture!

Here, he presents his take on events leading up to this ill-starred 'Brexit' farce and I'm bound to say I find myself in agreement with most of it:

brexit-isnt-new-black-wednesday-far-darker-than-that

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Keegan started from the established facts and ended with the wrong conclusion.
Parts of his assertions are true enough, leaving the exchange rate mechanism did embolden the Eurosceptics in the Conservative party and Britain was having almost the best of both European worlds, via numerous opt-outs.
In recent years, growth has been fuelled by immigration. That's a fact.
If we remain in the EU, future governments will continue to take this easy route, blaming it on FOM, and kicking the problem of low education, low productivity, high housing price further down the road.

 

[flecc]

Looks like my post got lost.

Your reply was within the quote marking, so was concealed. Here's your original content:

Tillson said:
I sincerely hope that you put them right and told them in no uncertain terms that they are very welcome to travel here, to live, to settle and to build life time careers. If not, why not?

To apologise to the students is to foster a lie and you are being most dishonest in doing so. You know very well that it has always been the case that people who posses skills which the UK needs will always be welcome, whatever their nationality or country of origin. It has always been made very clear that BREXIT was not about changing that. The notion that post BREXIT the UK is going to expel or reject people such as those medical students is a lie put about by the Remain camp and it is a lie nurtured by people such as yourself making foolish apologies instead of telling the truth. You can probably point to random idiot members of the public who would support such a ban, but in the same way, I can identify random Remainers who harbour equally idiotic views.

What you have done with those medical students is to lie to them by an act of omission. You omitted to tell the truth that I have outlined in the above paragraph. Unacceptable KudosDave and you surprise me.

I didn't put the perception in their mind that they are no longer welcome in the UK.
Our government have pretty much sent that message out to all of Europe.
I and my wife apologised for the Xenophobic attitudes of many UK , but explained that many in the U.K. feel that even post Brexit we are very much Europeans,including ourselves.
The Greeks are lovely and friendly people it's just a shame that they now think the UK is not a country that welcomes them.
I understand that post Brexit we may be offered a European passport I will be first in line to apply for one.
To be honest I no longer care a **** about the post Brexit economy,but I do care how the Brits are perceived in Europe.
KudosDave
.

 

[oldgroaner]

In recent years, growth has been fuelled by immigration. That's a fact.
If we remain in the EU, future governments will continue to take this easy route, blaming it on FOM, and kicking the problem of low education, low productivity, high housing price further down the road.

And when we leave, who will rescue us from our folly?

Where will the Hero of Heroine come from who will transform this Remora of an economic nation into the shark it was parasitic on?

That is the question and no one can answer it.
When the country is bankrupt
Who you Gonna call?

I have actually got the answer to that, it is in two parts

1. IMF loans
2. Re-application to join the EU

That was the route to Salvation the last time we attempted to destroy ourselves, and we will end up doing the same again for the same reasons.

 

[Woosh]

And when we leave, who will rescue us from our folly?

Where will the Hero of Heroine come from who will transform this Remora of an economic nation into the shark it was parasitic on?

That is the question and no one can answer it.
When the country is bankrupt
Who you Gonna call?

I have actually got the answer to that, it is in two parts

1. IMF loans
2. Re-application to join the EU

That was the route to Salvation the last time we attempted to destroy ourselves, and we will end up doing the same again for the same reasons.

We are not going to be bankrupted by brexit.
Paul Krugman and most scholars reckon brexit will cost the UK about 2% in GDP. Hard brexit is dead, the general consensus is we are going to stay very close to the EU.
It may surprise you that I agree with JC's view, we may have to leave the single market because he wants to re-nationalise a fair amount of sold state monopolies: rail, water, royal mail etc and invest directly in industry. Other than that, paying for less non-tariff barriers is OK to me.

 

[oldgroaner]

We are not going to be bankrupted by brexit.
Paul Krugman and most scholars reckon brexit will cost the UK about 2% in GDP.

Oh sure, I believe in Father Christmas too.

 

[Woosh]

do you think that TM can keep her job if inflation outstrips wages for another year?
The Brits may want to have cake and eat it but not to put up with a government that reduces their purchasing power. As Hammond said, they did not vote to get poorer.

 

[oldgroaner]

do you think that TM can keep her job if inflation outstrips wages for another year?
The Brits may want to have cake and eat it but not to put up with a government that reduces their purchasing power. As Hammond said, they did not vote to get poorer.

Didn't they? If true , they keep electing the wrong kind of government.
No doubt they will continue to do so.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

Didn't they? If true , they keep electing the wrong kind of government.
No doubt they will continue to do so.

yes, that is very likely. The truth is, it has always come down to tax and spend.
If people have to choose between having nationalized rail, electricity, water and paying less taxes, what do you think they are going to choose?
Me, I choose nationalized rail, electricity and water but I reckon most don't care enough. They'd rather choose a party that promises a larger tax free pay.

 

[oldgroaner]

yes, that is very likely. The truth is, it has always come down to tax and spend.
If people have to choose between having nationalized rail, electricity, water and paying less taxes, what do you think they are going to choose?
Me, I choose nationalized rail, electricity and water but I reckon most don't care enough. They'd rather choose a party that promises a larger tax free pay.

The irony is that the only thing that could make brexit work is JCs approach

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Me, I choose nationalized rail, electricity and water

Me too.
.

 

[Danidl]

From a talk by ex Irish government minister, who had responsibility for working through the austerity measures in the last government , and current leader of the Irish labour party, at the British labour party conference either . Today or yesterday. I am not inclined to go with the word anger more profound disappointment , but otherwise full agreement....


There is no solution to the Irish dimension of this problem outside the single market and the customs union. Transitional arrangements amount to no more than kicking the can down the road,” he said.

Mr Howlin spoke of the anger felt by people in Ireland over Brexit and the fact that its consequences for Ireland were scarcely mentioned during the referendum campaign.

“There is anger at the possibility of real issues on our island being used as pawns in a negotiating game. Anger that 50 years of working diligently towards better relationships have been so easily dismissed.

"Anger that a dynamic has been created that will have consequences we cannot yet even foresee. Bluntly, nobody knows how this is going to play out on the island of Ireland,” he said.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I remember the worry in NZ when the UK, then our largest client, joined the EU. I think there was even a special NZ clause in the deal. It pushed NZ agriculture to look for new clients, ever tried selling lamb to the Japanese?

 

[oldtom]

"Anger that a dynamic has been created that will have consequences we cannot yet even foresee. Bluntly, nobody knows how this is going to play out on the island of Ireland,” he said.

I agree entirely with the premise contained in those two sentences. It is a very worrying issue for people on both sides of the border. The DUP bribe from the Westminster government needs to be seen by everyone eligible to vote in UK elections for what it really is, cynicism at the highest level and for the worst of all reasons.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Macron rounds off his big Europe speech by saying he can't imagine Britain not wanting to stay in EU after he's done reforming it.

He was long winded (he spoke for about 50 minutes) but if you want to watch him delivering his vision of the EU, http://www.france24.com/fr/20170926-direct-emmanuel-macron-grand-discours-europe-union-europeenne-merkel

 

[PeterL]

Once Brexit is completed, will the UK (or at least England and Wales) join Trump's USA as new states?

Absolutely, in fact plans to join the US are already well underway.

If you have ever visited the UK you will no doubt have noticed the abundance of wind turbines scattered across the countryside. Once we have built enough of these turbines, the propellers will be able to generate enough lift to carry us across the Atlantic to our new home in the US.

 

[Danidl]

Once Brexit is completed, will the UK (or at least England and Wales) join Trump's USA as new states?

Absolutely, in fact plans to join the US are already well underway.

If you have ever visited the UK you will no doubt have noticed the abundance of wind turbines scattered across the countryside. Once we have built enough of these turbines, the propellers will be able to generate enough lift to carry us across the Atlantic to our new home in the US.

.. there you go again trampling on Ireland yet again. Those propellors will push Ireland into the gap around Blackpool, and force us across the Atlantic with you and we will end up on top of some Midwest state... Have you no pity!

 

[anotherkiwi]

No! Ireland is solidly attached to the EU so they will crash into you and the momentum will trip them up and over they will go over the top of you landing upside down in the middle of the Atlantic! Maybe you could give the lifeboat guys a day off that day? I mean you wouldn't want all those refugees, you would have to build camps like in Greece and Italy...

 

[Steb]

That's the problem, there isn't one. There are no leaders within the HoC. As far as I can see, none would put the best interests of the country ahead of themselves or lead the country by example. They all seem to be script driven & highly choreographed fakes.

yes, except the country voted brexit. sure they were duped by Boris Gove and Farage. But its no excuse. the electorate put excruciatingly narrow knuckle headed xenophobic self interest before national interest. its a bit like voting for trump and expecting intelligent leadership. sure we had choreographed fakes before. now we have something much worse.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Once Brexit is completed, will the UK (or at least England and Wales) join Trump's USA as new states?

Absolutely, in fact plans to join the US are already well underway.

If you have ever visited the UK you will no doubt have noticed the abundance of wind turbines scattered across the countryside. Once we have built enough of these turbines, the propellers will be able to generate enough lift to carry us across the Atlantic to our new home in the US.

They may just compete with all the hot foul air coming from the other direction.
KudosDave