Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

I sincerely hope that you put them right and told them in no uncertain terms that they are very welcome to travel here, to live, to settle and to build life time careers. If not, why not?

To apologise to the students is to foster a lie and you are being most dishonest in doing so. You know very well that it has always been the case that people who posses skills which the UK needs will always be welcome, whatever their nationality or country of origin. It has always been made very clear that BREXIT was not about changing that. The notion that post BREXIT the UK is going to expel or reject people such as those medical students is a lie put about by the Remain camp and it is a lie nurtured by people such as yourself making foolish apologies instead of telling the truth. You can probably point to random idiot members of the public who would support such a ban, but in the same way, I can identify random Remainers who harbour equally idiotic views.

What you have done with those medical students is to lie to them by an act of omission. You omitted to tell the truth that I have outlined in the above paragraph. Unacceptable KudosDave and you surprise me.

Whoa there tillson! you are flying far too high with this line!
You may say they are welcome, but this is certainly not the opinion of a good proportion of the population that voted for Brexit, who simply want to replace all foreigners with our "own" people and who will only tolerate anyone else as cheap temporary labour no matter how qualified they may be, and anyone reading the UK press with all the regulations about to be imposed will certainly not see welcome written on the mat.

What it actually says, is by all means come until we no longer need you as we have our own people trained to replace you, then you are history, off you go.

The foreign medical students are too bright to fall for that load of garbage.
Unacceptable tillson that you deny the true situation and you surprise me.

 

[flecc]

The notion that post BREXIT the UK is going to expel or reject people such as those medical students is a lie put about by the Remain camp

This simply isn't true, the lie was created by the rabid Brexiters who wanted and in many cases still want a end to immigration. The proof is on the streets which they still take to with banners against immigration, no remainers ever do that.

Remainers were mostly happy with the EU and the open borders it entailed, and that's why they voted to remain.

Why you believe the opposite of this obvious truth is baffling.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

That "perception" may very well be valid, but it is not the truth. The "perception" is allowed to grow and develop by people such as KudosDave because it suits their Remain agenda by tainting BREXIT. What KudosDave is actually doing is consciously allowing a lie to develop and gather credibility, which in turn has the effect of scaring and deterring innocent people. It's a rather nasty course of action to embark upon.

Tainting Brexit?
Joke of the day award tillson, how the hell can you taint something that stinks worse than a rotting corpse?

The Referendum result was bought on lies and false promises without the chief architects of this disaster knowing the first thing, or caring about the consequences .

It is nothing more than an internal coup within the Conservative party that has festered and infected the whole body Politic.

It does show one thing: a group of Con artists can be more damaging to their own country than an invasion by the Red Army.

 

[oldgroaner]

This simply isn't true, the lie was created by the rabid Brexiters who wanted and in many cases still want a end to immigration. The proof is on the streets which they still take to with banners against immigration, no remainers ever do that.

Remainers were mostly happy with the EU and the open borders it entailed, and that's why they voted to remain.

Why you believe the opposite of this obvious truth is baffling.
.

Not really, it shows that even someone with tillson's considerable intelligence isn't proof against a belief in Magic, for after all he knows the Conservatives are enemies of the State, and Labour struggle to find the Toilet, yet trusts these clown to transform within a few years, this Wright Flyer of a country of ours into a Boeing 747

And that after chucking out the parachute that the EU provided.

"To obscurity and beyond!"

 

[oldgroaner]

Historically we have form when it comes to abusing foreigners that we desperately need then discard.
This from of all places the daily Mail
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3884076/Why-did-humiliate-Polish-aces-Battle-Britain-heroics-ungrateful-nation-wanted-deport-men-women-fell-Hitler-feared.html
"



Why did we humiliate the Polish aces after their Battle of Britain heroics? How an ungrateful nation wanted to deport the men our women fell for and Hitler feared

Do you imagine that people forget the things we have done?

 

[tillson]

This simply isn't true, the lie was created by the rabid Brexiters who wanted and in many cases still want a end to immigration. The proof is on the streets which they still take to with banners against immigration, no remainers ever do that.

Remainers were mostly happy with the EU and the open borders it entailed, and that's why they voted to remain.

Why you believe the opposite of this obvious truth is baffling.
.

I agree that there is an element that would like to expel foreign nationals and close the door on any new arrivals. The people who harbour those views were here long before the word BREXIT was ever invented and they will be here long after the words BREXIT and Remoaner are forgotten.

The official BREXIT line from those official representing leave, not the people who I describe above, has always been that skilled people are welcome to come to the UK, to settle and to build careers. That has not changed.

 

[Danidl]

That "perception" may very well be valid, but it is not the truth. The "perception" is allowed to grow and develop by people such as KudosDave because it suits their Remain agenda by tainting BREXIT. What KudosDave is actually doing is consciously allowing a lie to develop and gather credibility, which in turn has the effect of scaring and deterring innocent people. It's a rather nasty course of action to embark upon.

I take my information from a variety of sources including but certainly not limited from all the contributions on this thread. In the case of medics and associated personnel I am using personal knowledge from family members and their interactions with their work colleagues. Note my use of the words and the distinction between need and want.
Even if official England recognises the need and engages in a major recruiting international campaign for medics citing the warm and friendly welcome they will recieve it will be hard to counter the negative already published in UK media. Particularly as official England is apparantly speaking from both sides of its mouth at present.
The world wide web is exactly that and any stuff published including the readers forums is available.

 

[Zlatan]

Many on here not only believe the lie Tillson so rightly explains, they openly promote that lie to damage Brexit and discredit those that support it. These people then ironically tell us Brexit is result of right wing propoganda, when in reality its these very people who have been brainwashed by the remain lies..
Its nice to see Tillson bringing back attempts at reality. This thread has ventured into and remains firmly in fantasy for very long periods. ( Apart from from Woosh, who gets my continued praise..incredible patience and perseverance..)

 

[Woosh]

In the case of medics and associated personnel I am using personal knowledge from family members and their interactions with their work colleagues.

attitude differs even among hospital staff. I spent a fair number of days this year in hospital and was cared for by people from all over the world.
There is no doubt that the management appreciates how lucky they are to retain their staff, nevermind they are indigenous or not.

 

[oldgroaner]

Many on here not only believe the lie Tillson so rightly explains, they openly promote that lie to damage Brexit and discredit those that support it. These people then ironically tell us Brexit is result of right wing propoganda, when in reality its these very people who have been brainwashed by the remain lies..
Its nice to see Tillson bringing back attempts at reality. This thread has ventured into and remains firmly in fantasy for very long periods. ( Apart from from Woosh, who gets my continued praise..incredible patience and perseverance..)

Who are you kidding? Brexit is the ultimate expression of right wing logic, nothing more and nothing less, it has nothing to do with improving the lot of the public and your personal interest is as always by your own admission of the opportunities for rip off investment deals.
So spare us the phony moral arguments

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Zlatan]

Who are you kidding? Brexit is the ultimate expression of right wing logic, nothing more and nothing less, it has nothing to do with improving the lot of the public and your personal interest is as always by your own admission of the opportunities for rip off investment deals.
So spare us the phony moral arguments

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

As normal, nothing actually said.
I,ve spent last week or so reading up on Labour's and Corbyn's position on Brexit. He is without doubt anti EU. Anybody thinking he is biding his time and then taking over ,eventually saving the day, is seriously misled.
He wants government freedom to carry out many social and economic reforms that he feels would be inhibited by EU.( I have no idea if that's case, but Corbyn suspects so)
( Nationalisation is only one aspect of his thoughts around this)
Corbyn had voted against eu in every case. He is pro Brexit...which by accepted wisdom by many on here that makes him a racist ( and probably Tory)
Corbyn is actually more anti EU than May !!!
Now where does that leave all the extreme left warblers on here.???

So according to OG Corbyn wants Brexit so he can rip off the people...
Now OG don't go off at a tangent, don't insult,don't patronise just explain how one of countries biggest socialist politicians wants out of EU ? Does he some how know less than you ? Does he want to enslave workforce? Is he a racist ? Fascist? Misled? Stupid? Come on OG answer the question.

 

[oldgroaner]

So according to OG Corbyn wants Brexit so he can rip off the people...
Now OG don't go off at a tangent, don't insult,don't patronise just explain how one of countries biggest socialist politicians wants out of EU ? Does he some how know less than you ? Does he want to enslave workforce? Is he a racist ? Fascist? Misled? Stupid? Come on OG answer the question.

Usual confused response from you.
Let'd be clear, I'm not a Corbyn Fan, have you got that? and as I have already posted, though as usual you clearly were NOT paying attention, he is not much of a Socialist, having completely parochial and local view of what he believes Socialism to be.

It is international, not merely a UK phenomenon.
Frankly he doesn't rate as a Socialist, does he?

Feel free to call him all the names you like, I haven't, and I don't intend to do so simply because you urge me to.
In future do please read and try to understand my postings.

But I will respond to these questions of yours
"Does he some how know less than you"
What makes you think he does know more? everything about Brexit get down to belief rather than facts, doesn't it?
So why should he or you for that matter know any more than I do?

On this
"Is he a racist ? Fascist? Misled? Stupid?
I seem to recall the Press accusing him of all of those things, I haven't, have I?
However I'll hazard a guess, he's innocent of the first two perhaps, but guilty of the last two almost certainly.

 

[Zlatan]

Still nothing actually said OG...

You are deliberately missing point.
BFN..

 

[Woosh]

on a lighter note, how about this?

In a lively speech, Thornberry told delegates Johnson had “not been happy lately” in the cabinet. “Apparently he’s sick of being blamed for the way Brexit is going and all the broken promises of the leave campaign,” she said.

“I’m sorry – what? Who does he think made all those promises? Who does he think was in charge of the leave campaign? I know that Boris doesn’t like paternity tests, but maybe we need one for Brexit.

“Maybe we should take him into a studio with Jeremy Kyle: ‘Sorry, Mr Johnson, we got the results back and it looks like this one is one of yours. It must have been that wild night out you had with Michael Gove … I’ve calculated your maintenance payments and that’ll be £350m a week’.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/25/boris-johnson-ridiculed-brexit-paternity-test-emily-thornberry-joke-labour-conference

 

[Danidl]

I agree that there is an element that would like to expel foreign nationals and close the door on any new arrivals. The people who harbour those views were here long before the word BREXIT was ever invented and they will be here long after the words BREXIT and Remoaner are forgotten.

The official BREXIT line from those official representing leave, not the people who I describe above, has always been that skilled people are welcome to come to the UK, to settle and to build careers. That has not changed.

That there's always a group wanting isolation, and no immigration, is no surprise, that they were given oxygen, is . The condemnations from official England were and continue to be either lacking or mealy-mouthed.
I agree that the official , if the term can be used, Brexit stance has been to state that specific categories of immigrant are welcome, but actions of various organs of state contradict that... The letters advising people to leave, the reported attitudes of public officials etc. That citizenship is neither not available to their spouses and children or highly conditional all leads to an obvious conclusion that they are unwanted.
This leaves the middle management tier, the hospital managers, the university administrators, the department heads in engineering firms to take the brunt . They know the value of the immigrant assets they have, both in terms of the people and as production units and they are not being supported except perhaps in a few pius platitudes.
Now I have made no secret that I consider Brexit, in whatever terms , as being a disaster for both UK and Ireland .. and I'm not sure in which order will be worse affected, and a damage to the rest of Europe. Bad and all as it is, the implementation strategy has been appalling and a shambles. Had the UK decided on a 10 to 20 year extraction strategy and set this in motion, the disaster might have been averted, but not the damage.
I refuse to use prejorative terms like remoaners or Brexit. But please Tilson, you are an intelligent person , see the wood from the trees.

 

[Woosh]

Now I have made no secret that I consider Brexit, in whatever terms , as being a disaster for both UK and Ireland .

don't be so hasty.
brexit is causing problems for both our countries but at the same time, forces both sides of the channel to re-think what we really, really want for the future.
Apparently, Macro is going to suggest a new idea, that the UK can be an associate member if it so wanted. A kind of EFTA for one.

 

[Danidl]

Many on here not only believe the lie Tillson so rightly explains, they openly promote that lie to damage Brexit and discredit those that support it. These people then ironically tell us Brexit is result of right wing propoganda, when in reality its these very people who have been brainwashed by the remain lies..
Its nice to see Tillson bringing back attempts at reality. This thread has ventured into and remains firmly in fantasy for very long periods. ( Apart from from Woosh, who gets my continued praise..incredible patience and perseverance..)

.. I will agree with you in regard to woosh.

 

[oldgroaner]

Still nothing actually said OG...

You are deliberately missing point.
BFN..

What point would that be? I made my position plain. didn't it suit you?
Never mind.
You are as usual trying to make others agree with your assumptions
Next time you feel like throwing your delusions around like confetti, do little checking first.
Try finding one of my posts where i have described Corbyn as any of the things in this rant of yours.
"Now OG don't go off at a tangent, don't insult,don't patronise just explain how one of countries biggest socialist politicians wants out of EU ? Does he some how know less than you ? Does he want to enslave workforce? Is he a racist ? Fascist? Misled? Stupid? Come on OG answer the question.,

Well I answered all that Garbage, so I'll try again, what was the question you forgot to ask?

 

[oldgroaner]

don't be so hasty.
brexit is causing problems for both our countries but at the same time, forces both sides of the channel to re-think what we really, really want for the future.
Apparently, Macro is going to suggest a new idea, that the UK can be an associate member if it so wanted. A kind of EFTA for one.

Hope he's a good salesman, Woosh!

 

[oldgroaner]

come to the UK, to settle and to build careers.

For a couple of years that is.