Brexit, for once some facts.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Well that new beautiful trading relationship with the US is going well isn't it.

USA just slapped a 220% tariff on Bombardier, to protect the US manufacturer Boeing, putting 4000 UK jobs at risk.

 

[flecc]

Well that new beautiful trading relationship with the US is going well isn't it.

USA just slapped a 220% tariff on Bombardier, to protect the US manufacturer Boeing, putting 4000 UK jobs at risk.

So much for being a friendly neighbour, Bombardier being a Canadian company of course.

Mexico on one side and Canada on the other will regard Trump's America as the neighbour from hell.
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[Kudoscycles]

I find Boris despicable. The UK is clearly moving towards a crisis,his boss really needs his support and he is stabbing her in the back.
The referendum was called by Cameron to try to kill the infighting by the 'bastards', the split in the Tories is now worse and their selfish agenda is ignoring management of our country.
Corbyn would be equally selfish.
Our politics are in such a mess that it is difficult to see a way out , Brexit really only exaggerates the problems, a distraction not a solution.
Post Brexit, the bastards will form the UK into their own preferred model, that model will certainly do nothing to support the poor, who ironically voted Brexit in the hope of an easy lifestyle...the Rees-Moggs have no easy lifestyle plan for these people, quite the opposite.
During my Greek trip I have visited some poorer towns away from the tourist areas.. in some of these towns 30% of the businesses have shut up shop,let's hope our deprived areas in the UK don't go the same way.

 

[oldtom]

The tory in-fighting continues and some would have it that the next party leader and PM, god forbid, will be one of these two:



Nicely explained, I'd say, with the exception of the insult towards granite.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Well that new beautiful trading relationship with the US is going well isn't it.

USA just slapped a 220% tariff on Bombardier, to protect the US manufacturer Boeing, putting 4000 UK jobs at risk.

Yeah but!.........wait till we're free of the EU - we will be so much stronger on our own and able to stand up to the bully boys of American capitalism.

Oh ye of little faith!

Tom

 

[Steb]

So much for being a friendly neighbour, Bombardier being a Canadian company of course.

Mexico on one side and Canada on the other will regard Trump's America as the neighbour from hell.
.

yup, if trump does that to Canada, that quick trade deal with brexit uk that is going to save us should be just "fine"

 

[PeterL]

yup, if trump does that to Canada, that quick trade deal with brexit uk that is going to save us should be just "fine"

Seem to be missing the real question here: are the planes being sold below cost? That in turn raises the spectre of manufacturing in JC’s ‘modern’ GB with state-owned utilities and government controlled investment banks. Not so sure we will find too many customers for the big-ticket items.

 

[flecc]

Seem to be missing the real question here: are the planes being sold below cost? That in turn raises the spectre of manufacturing in JC’s ‘modern’ GB with state-owned utilities and government controlled investment banks. Not so sure we will find too many customers for the big-ticket items.

Boeing and the US government always play dirty to protect Boeing's market, and there's no doubt that is what is happening here yet again. The underhand ways they tried to undermine Airbus to prevent the A380 being successful were almost unbelievable, but they lost in the end with Airbus now being the World's largest maker of airliners and all major airlines needing the A380.

If Brazil's Embraer airliner maker had won the the Delta contract instead of Bombardier, they'd have been gunning for them instead. Boeing are expensive in the smaller airliner market, which is why Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and the like can beat them fairly.
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[Steb]

Seem to be missing the real question here: are the planes being sold below cost? That in turn raises the spectre of manufacturing in JC’s ‘modern’ GB with state-owned utilities and government controlled investment banks. Not so sure we will find too many customers for the big-ticket items.

no, you're trying to make this about corbyn. I thought that went out of fashion after tereza failed so miserably at it before the snap election? Boeing gets massive support from the federal government
http://trade.ec.europa.eu/doclib/docs/2010/september/tradoc_146485.pdf
this isn't about state support, at all. Its about protectionist USA. You know, our new best racist buddy over the Atlantic that were going chum up to us after brexit.

 

[PeterL]

Boeing and the US government always play dirty to protect Boeing's market, and there's no doubt that is what is happening here yet again. The underhand ways they tried to undermine Airbus to prevent the A380 being successful were almost unbelievable, but they lost in the end with Airbus now being the World's largest maker of airliners and all major airlines needing the A380.

If Brazil's Embraer airliner maker had won the the Delta contract instead of Bombardier, they'd have been gunning for them instead. Boeing are expensive in the smaller airliner market, which is why Airbus, Embraer, Bombardier and the like can beat them fairly.
.

From what I read the real argument here is between Canada and Brazil with each accusing the other of massive subsidises of their respective aircraft industries, in fact both have been fined by the WTO over the past few years. Whilst Boeing have their own history when it comes to selling aircraft, not in this instance I feel.

 

[PeterL]

this isn't about state support, at all. Its about protectionist USA. You know, our new best racist buddy over the Atlantic that were going chum up to us after brexit.

Sorry, this is totally about state aid!

 

[Steb]

Sorry, this is totally about state aid!

you're wrong
https://www.economist.com/news/business/21729469-row-between-planemakers-has-become-political-boeing-takes-flight-hypocrisy
I realise the headlines from the sun or express fit better with an anti-corbyn agenda. and I'm very sorry to burst the bubble. but on this occasion, as with those promises about brexit, they are crass fake news.

 

[flecc]

From what I read the real argument here is between Canada and Brazil with each accusing the other of massive subsidises of their respective aircraft industries, in fact both have been fined by the WTO over the past few years. Whilst Boeing have their own history when it comes to selling aircraft, not in this instance I feel.

And who controls the WTO?! Come on, get real, the USA always plays the rules to suit itself. Just look at their very heavily sudsidised steel industry, but as soon as any other government wants to give any help to their steel industry the USA cries foul.

Remember their retaliation against us with sanctions on the Harris tweed cottage industry? Talk about kicking the little and vulnerable, the USA stoops as low as it wants to, using it's big bully status to get away with it.
.

 

[PeterL]

you're wrong
https://www.economist.com/news/business/21729469-row-between-planemakers-has-become-political-boeing-takes-flight-hypocrisy
I realise the headlines from the sun or express fit better with an anti-corbyn agenda. and I'm very sorry to burst the bubble. but on this occasion, as with those promises about brexit, they are crass fake news.

I'm not wrong at all, neither am I the judge (and jury). The paper you quote lays it out quite fairly and there is no need for you to read between the lines. The last paragraph probably says it all if you choose to be pragmatic

"Canada has also threatened to cancel a likely $5bn order of military jets from Boeing if the American company prevails against Bombardier; Britain could follow its lead. Several airlines, fearing less competition among planemakers, are unhappy with Boeing’s behaviour and privately threaten to shun its jets if it continues to bully its smaller rival. This may be the trade case that ends up costing Boeing much more than it has to gain."

I don't read either the Sun or the Express, nor the SW come to that.

 

[PeterL]

And who controls the WTO?! Come on, get real, the USA always plays the rules to suit itself. Just look at their very heavily sudsidised steel industry, but as soon as any other government wants to give any help to their steel industry the USA cries foul.

Remember their retaliation against us with sanctions on the Harris tweed cottage industry? Talk about kicking the little and vulnerable, the USA stoops as low as it wants to, using it's big bully status to get away with it.
.

Get real - indeed, makes a lot of sense. You should try it sometime.

 

[flecc]

Get real - indeed, makes a lot of sense. You should try it sometime.

I did with facts, which you obviously dislike.
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[flecc]

"Canada has also threatened to cancel a likely $5bn order of military jets from Boeing if the American company prevails against Bombardier; Britain could follow its lead. Several airlines, fearing less competition among planemakers, are unhappy with Boeing’s behaviour and privately threaten to shun its jets if it continues to bully its smaller rival. This may be the trade case that ends up costing Boeing much more than it has to gain."

But what is wrong with that, Boeing and the US administration are undoubtedly bullying since Boeing don't even have a competitive model, wanting Delta to buy something less suitable for their needs.

The threats from Canada et al are simply retaliation in kind and entirely equitable in the circumstances.

The airlines don't want to go back to the era when Boeing had hardly any competition and could hold them to ransom, nor does anyone else with the slightest sense.
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[PeterL]

But what is wrong with that, Boeing and the US administration are undoubtedly bullying since Boeing don't even have a competitive model, wanting Delta to buy something less suitable for their needs.

The threats from Canada et al are simply retaliation in kind and entirely equitable in the circumstances.

The airlines don't want to go back to the era when Boeing had hardly any competition and could hold them to ransom, nor does anyone else with the slightest sense.
.

No too sure where we disagree here? I'm not aware of saying that I agreed with everything that Boeing, or indeed what Trump does or says is correct or fair. As you said "Get Real'

 

[Steb]

I'm not wrong at all, neither am I the judge (and jury). The paper you quote lays it out quite fairly and there is no need for you to read between the lines. The last paragraph probably says it all if you choose to be pragmatic

"Canada has also threatened to cancel a likely $5bn order of military jets from Boeing if the American company prevails against Bombardier; Britain could follow its lead. Several airlines, fearing less competition among planemakers, are unhappy with Boeing’s behaviour and privately threaten to shun its jets if it continues to bully its smaller rival. This may be the trade case that ends up costing Boeing much more than it has to gain."

I don't read either the Sun or the Express, nor the SW come to that.

Indeed, reread that paragraph, it's about usa protectionism, others are simply reacting to that. I'm not convinced that kind of trade relationship beats the one we had with eu that gave us airbus, concorde or the channel tunnel. No need to read between lines.

 

[PeterL]

Indeed, reread that paragraph, it's about usa protectionism, others are simply reacting to that. I'm not convinced that kind of trade relationship beats the one we had with eu that gave us airbus, concorde or the channel tunnel. No need to read between lines.

It is not about protectionism, that is your interpretation. It is about subsidies, on both sides and that is plainly (pun) wrong. You really should try to read things as written - including my posts.