Brexit, for once some facts.

oldtom

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The word Great was added to Britain to reflect the enlarged area of the country when Scotland joined into union with Britain (England and Wales), that's all. Therefore the word Great does not in any way reflect status, in the sense of standing in the world.
Yes 'flecc', that too is my understanding of how the expression GB came to pass.

Deviating from that matter somewhat but still loosely connected to the matter of 'Brexit', I find it interesting to conjecture with the German situation in Europe, the EU to be more precise I suppose. WW2 may well have been Hitler's attempt to create the 'Third Reich' which everybody has heard of but few understand properly.

The dream of Hitler and millions of Nazi supporters to create that third great kingdom or empire failed to materialise due to the German failure to actually win the second world war. Amazingly, just 70 years or so after that defeat, Germany is now arguably the strongest and most important state in Europe so, given the stated aim of EU leaders to progress the EU into a United States of Europe, it could be described as the achievement finally of that 'Third Reich'.

Perhaps it is not exactly what the little Corporal had in mind but I'm sure most Germans will be happy to be where they are today without any further casualties or destruction of their fine cities.

I suppose I should mention that a little internet research reveals that the 'First Reich' to the Germans was the Holy Roman empire and the 'Second Reich' is generally described as the period when many German independent states were united under Kaiser Wilhelm 1 with his Chancellor, Bismarck in 1871 until the end of WW1 when German lost much of its territory.

Hitler's dream was of a 'Reich' that would last for a thousand years and maybe we have just seen the first few decades of that dream come to fruition. Those English men and women claiming to be of good Anglo-Saxon stock shouldn't be too disappointed about Germany being the strongest nation in the EU as those Angles and Saxons all started out in the area of Europe we know today as Denmark and Germany. It's all in the history books.

Tom
 
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flecc

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I feel a ned to pop back and correct Flecc

Derivation of "Great"
The Greco-Egyptian scientist Ptolemy referred to the larger island as great Britain (μεγάλης Βρεττανίας - megális Brettanias) and to Ireland as little Britain (μικρής Βρεττανίας - mikris Brettanias) in his work Almagest (147–148 AD).[20] In his later work, Geography (c. 150 AD), he gave the islands the names Alwion, Iwernia, and Mona (the Isle of Man),[21] suggesting these may have been the names of the individual islands not known to him at the time of writing Almagest.[22] The name Albion appears to have fallen out of use sometime after the Roman conquest of Britain, after which Britain became the more commonplace name for the island.[15]

After the Anglo-Saxon period, Britain was used as a historical term only. Geoffrey of Monmouth in his pseudohistorical Historia Regum Britanniae (c. 1136) refers to the island as Britannia major ("Greater Britain"), to distinguish it from Britannia minor ("Lesser Britain"), the continental region which approximates to modern Brittany, which had been settled in the fifth and sixth centuries by migrants from Britain.[23] The term Great Britain was first used officially in 1474, in the instrument drawing up the proposal for a marriage between Cecily the daughter of Edward IV of England, and James the son of James III of Scotland, which described it as "this Nobill Isle, callit Gret Britanee". It was used again in 1604, when King James VI and I styled himself "King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland".

Modern use of the term Great Britain
Great Britain refers geographically to the island of Great Britain, politically to England, Scotland and Wales in combination.[24] However, it is sometimes used loosely to refer to the whole of the United Kingdom.[25]

Similarly, Britain, can refer to either all islands in Great Britain, the largest island, or the political grouping of counties.[26] There is no clear distinction, even in government documents: the UK government yearbooks have used both "Britain"[27] and "United Kingdom".[28]

GB and GBR are used instead of UK in some international codes to refer to the United Kingdom, including the Universal Postal Union, international sports teams, NATO, the International Organization for Standardization country codes ISO 3166-2 and ISO 3166-1 alpha-3, and international licence plate codes.

On the Internet, .uk is the country code top-level domain for the United Kingdom. A .gb top-level domain was used to a limited extent, but is now obsolete because the domain name registrar will not take new registrations.

In the Olympics, Team GB is used by the British Olympic Association to represent the Great Britain and Northern Ireland Olympic team. The British Grand Prix of motor racing is another example of a use of Britain in place of the United Kingdom.

Political definition

Political definition of Great Britain (dark green)
– in Europe (green & dark grey)
– in the United Kingdom (green)
Politically, Great Britain refers to the whole of England, Scotland and Wales in combination,[29] but not Northern Ireland; it includes islands, such as the Isle of Wight, Anglesey, the Isles of Scilly, the Hebrides and the island groups of Orkney and Shetland, that are part of England, Wales, or Scotland. It does not include the Isle of Man and the Channel Islands, which are self-governing dependent territories.[29][30]

The political union that joined the kingdoms of England and Scotland happened in 1707 when the Acts of Union ratified the 1706 Treaty of Union and merged the parliaments of the two nations, forming the Kingdom of Great Britain, which covered the entire island. Before this, a personal union had existed between these two countries since the 1603 Union of the Crowns under James VI of Scotland and I of England.
This failed attempt to correct me was pathetic, acknowledginging as it does the meaning of Great Britain in terms of the inclusion of Scotland.

Ptolemy's meaning was also in terms of size, not status, and completely irrelevant in terms of our own usage.
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PeterL

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This failed attempt to correct me was pathetic, acknowledginging as it does the meaning of Great Britain in terms of the inclusion of Scotland.

Ptolemy's meaning was also in terms of size, not status, and completely irrelevant in terms of our own usage.
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The language used on here really is shameful

The term Great Britain was first used officially in 1474, in the instrument drawing up the proposal for a marriage between Cecily the daughter of Edward IV of England, and James the son of James III of Scotland, which described it as "this Nobill Isle, callit Gret Britanee". It was used again in 1604, when King James VI and I styled himself "King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland".

No one disputed, or even implied that it meant wonderful, fantastic or whatever - but, this was factually incorrect -1474 comes well before the 1700's

The word Great was added to Britain to reflect the enlarged area of the country when Scotland joined into union with Britain (England and Wales), that's all.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
I suppose the 'Brexidiots' will claim this, like other similar tales to have emerged over recent months, is simply a little collateral damage on the way towards taking back control and getting rid of all those foreigners out of Britain.

This is yet another example of the future under this fascist government but it is not in my name:

Ghanian national Dorris Amanor-Howe’s visa application has been rejected multiple times since 2013 - even though she married St Albans local Matthew Howe five years ago.

Late last year Matthew was diagnosed with multiple sclerosis (MS) and now cannot walk without a frame, tackle the stairs, or manage daily tasks like cooking or laundry unaided.

He relies on Dorris as a carer and wife, but a recent re-application in light of this has been rejected again.

Dorris has been told to go back to Ghana without delay.

The couple have spoken out about their anguish after reading about a similar story in the Herts Ad - Wanwan Qiao is being sent back to China in November without her newborn baby, who will be a month old.

Mrs Amanor-Howe rejection stated: “It is still not accepted that there would be insurmountable or significant obstacles to your relationship continuing in Ghana, if required to leave the UK.”It argues that the MS “must be terminal and the individual must be at the end stages of that illness” and Dorris leaving would result in “an earlier death” for Matthew.

Matthew said the decision has made him feel like a second-rate citizen: “They are telling me, as a British born citizen, to get out of the country.

“That has really annoyed me, I am a tax payer and I have been paying tax since I was 16 years old and it made me feel like I am a second-rate citizen.”

He says he is disappointed with the British government: “My wife is honest as the day is long and I can wash and dress myself, but it’s other things like cooking that I need help with. My MS is horrible. I was working hard, driving around in my lorry, and now I walk with a frame, I take 10 minutes to walk up the stairs. I think I can do this stuff but I can’t.

“It’s gets me down, and she cheers me up if I get depressed - they said I don’t need my wife but I thought ‘well, I do’.”

Dorris helps Matthew around the house, go to his frequent hospital appointments, and provides mental support through the illness. They are currently challenging the decision in court.

A Home Office spokesperson said: “It would be inappropriate to comment whilst legal proceedings are ongoing.”

http://www.hertsad.co.uk/…/st-albans-ms-sufferer-s-carer-wi…

image.jpg

Tom
 

tillson

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A slightly worrying development is the government's prioritising of The Filth when lifting the 1% pay cap. Why? They, and especially May, hate the police.

Could it be that they sense civil unrest? Throw a bit of cheese in the direction of the coppers and they'll forgive all that went before and duff-up the workers on behalf of their masters?
 

oldgroaner

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A slightly worrying development is the government's prioritising of The Filth when lifting the 1% pay cap. Why? They, and especially May, hate the police.

Could it be that they sense civil unrest? Throw a bit of cheese in the direction of the coppers and they'll forgive all that went before and duff-up the workers on behalf of their masters?
Welcome back tillson, you are on the ball as usual!
 

oldgroaner

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Of all the catalogue of errors surrounding the Secession negotiations, perhaps the biggest was using the term "Divorce" and who is supposed to have made the unpardonable error for that, and undermined her own plan to negotiate favourable terms?
" a Brexit divorce bill. .... Theresa May coined the term at her 2016 party conference -"
What a genius! it would be hard for her to say something that would prove more of a millstone around her neck than that, it was a gift from the Gods for anyone wanting to destroy the negotiations.

What joy the right wing must have felt when she provided them with a statement that could be weaponised and guaranteed to stir up public antipathy to the EU.

Imagine how much easier it would have been if she had actually done what she said "Played the cards close to her chest" and closed this part of the deal, presenting it quietly as a fait accompli. after agreeing a settlement.
It could have been played down and been at best a nine day wonder.
Alas the need to stir up public support which led to a disastrous election,led her to the same mistake over this matter.

Now we are in a situation rather like the time we were assured "The war will be over by Christmas" and no one dares to say which year that might be.


What can we expect when we come to trade deals? are we going to insult the very people we want an agreement with there too, and make a mockery of them in the press?

And I am accused of being "pessimistic"
Halleluyah!
 
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Woosh

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oldgroaner

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yes, a little pessimistic.
Mr Johnson is not so quietly positioning himself as TM's replacement, he does not rule out FOM nor the ECJ in his most recent interview. Read into that he is willing to make a deal.
Just think for a moment, Boris Johnson comes to do JC's job?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-41225267/no-brexit-time-scale-from-boris-johnson
Well you have made me smile, Boris is quite an operator, isn't he? but as I pointed out the situation has become out of control and I doubt at this point that any of them know what, or how, to unpick the Gordian Knot they have created for themselves.
I shall mull over that prospect you have raised!
 

flecc

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The language used on here really is shameful

The term Great Britain was first used officially in 1474, in the instrument drawing up the proposal for a marriage between Cecily the daughter of Edward IV of England, and James the son of James III of Scotland, which described it as "this Nobill Isle, callit Gret Britanee". It was used again in 1604, when King James VI and I styled himself "King of Great Brittaine, France and Ireland".

No one disputed, or even implied that it meant wonderful, fantastic or whatever - but, this was factually incorrect -1474 comes well before the 1700's

The word Great was added to Britain to reflect the enlarged area of the country when Scotland joined into union with Britain (England and Wales), that's all.
You're still struggling, those were personal usages by monarchs and in relation to the position of the monarchy. It was perfectly clear that I was posting in terms of the current and established meaning of Great Britain, a political one as you've acknowledged, and your obfuscation doesn't change that

The parliamentary acts of union established the current usage of Great Britain and its meaning

And you are quite wrong in your posting that no-one implied it meant wonderful, fantastic etc., made so by your own posting of the following under the name of John Finagan:

"For centuries Britain did rather well out of its insularity ….. even to the point of calling itself Great Britain."

which didn't even make any sense, insularity and union are strange bedfellows.

It was precisely that post which prompted my initial correction.
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flecc

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A slightly worrying development is the government's prioritising of The Filth when lifting the 1% pay cap. Why? They, and especially May, hate the police.

Could it be that they sense civil unrest? Throw a bit of cheese in the direction of the coppers and they'll forgive all that went before and duff-up the workers on behalf of their masters?
Precisely my thought when I heard that news. Thatcher did the same when she wanted a gang of armed thugs to attack miners and other civilian protesters, bribe the police to do the job.
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oldgroaner

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Precisely my thought when I heard that news. Thatcher did the same when she wanted a gang of armed thugs to attack miners and other civilian protesters, bribe the police to do the job.
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It would appear that the Government has at last realised that the trouble we have been predicting on here (OK that was mainly me) is worth taking out some insurance against.
For once I think they are making a smart move, but a smarter one would be to drop Brexit, deal with the lesser trouble after that rather than the mayhem after a year or so beyond the so call "Independence Day"
They are likely to find the Police inadequate to deal with that.
 
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tillson

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Precisely my thought when I heard that news. Thatcher did the same when she wanted a gang of armed thugs to attack miners and other civilian protesters, bribe the police to do the job.
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Yes, my mind went straight back to that era. The police had a big pay rise just before they were called upon to vilify, criminalise and bully a group of people who wanted nothing more than employment security for themselves and their families. The police did lasting damage to themselves back then, and the consequences are still evident today. They will do it all over again if May opens her purse and throws them a bit of cash. Such is the power of money. Disgraceful.
 

anotherkiwi

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From The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/10/uk-flouting-duty-to-cut-air-pollution-deaths-says-un-human-rights-report

A government spokeswoman said Brexit represented an opportunity to improve the UK’s air quality standards.
“EU policies, from the common agricultural policy to vehicle emissions tests, have damaged the environment. Our £3bn air quality plan will address the dirty air caused by the EU’s failed testing regime, and in ending the sale of new diesel and petrol cars by 2040, the UK is more ambitious than most EU member states including Germany. We now have an opportunity to deliver a green Brexit, ensuring the UK is a global leader in environmental protection,” she said."

The UN says that the UK isn't applying EU clean ar regulations and it is all the EU's fault to be fixed immediately after brexit!!! WTF is wrong with these people? Are they all on crack cocaïne?
 

oldgroaner

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From The Guardian:

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/10/uk-flouting-duty-to-cut-air-pollution-deaths-says-un-human-rights-report

A government spokeswoman said Brexit represented an opportunity to improve the UK’s air quality standards.
“EU policies, from the common agricultural policy to vehicle emissions tests, have damaged the environment. Our £3bn air quality plan will address the dirty air caused by the EU’s failed testing regime, and in ending the sale of new diesel and petrol cars by 2040, the UK is more ambitious than most EU member states including Germany. We now have an opportunity to deliver a green Brexit, ensuring the UK is a global leader in environmental protection,” she said."

The UN says that the UK isn't applying EU clean ar regulations and it is all the EU's fault to be fixed immediately after brexit!!! WTF is wrong with these people? Are they all on crack cocaïne?
They don't need Crack Cocaine, just step outside the HOC and take a deep breath or two...
 

oldgroaner

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I am fascinated by the concept of a "Green" Brexit, it could well come about when nobody can afford to run a car, nor pay to charge an electric one either.

Back to the good old days when I started work and stared at the 1000 plus bikes in the works bike shed, and the dozen or so in the exclusive area reserved for the management.
It was instant dismissal to put your bike in there!
Only God himself the MD had a car, a Jaguar.

Mind you the Foundry spewed out enough in fumes to kill off the workforce around the age of fifty if Asbestos didn't get them first

You lucky people, you have all this to look forward to, after all Jackass Grease Smug has said
"
Britain could slash environmental and safety standards 'a very long way' after Brexit, Tory MP Jacob Rees-Mogg says.

It only affects the lower class workers after all
 
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Woosh

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anotherkiwi

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This came to my attention while watching a TV show (on arte) about the UK the other night:

Qatar, which is roughly the same size as Yorkshire, has built up its holding in UK property in less than 10 years - although it amassed a vast area when it and Brookfield bought Canary Wharf owner Songbird Estates for £2.6bn in 2015.

However, the tiny country's sovereign wealth fund also owns stakes in The Shard, Harrods, the Olympic Village and Claridge's, as well as One Hyde Park, Camden Market, and an estimated £1bn of property in Mayfair.

You don't even own your own country, how can you say "take back control", "regain sovereignty" by leaving the EU? Qatar, when I last looked, doesn't belong to the EU.
 

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