Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

You are I take it being humorous? that was the whole intent of Brexit!

There are fringes on both sides that come out with a lot of excessive claims. Whenever you do a deal, some court must be elected to arbitrate.
After brexit, the number of international courts is going to multiply because we would be dealing direct with more countries.

 

[oldtom]

Whenever you do a deal, some court must be elected to arbitrate.
After brexit, the number of international courts is going to multiply because we would be dealing direct with more countries.

So, the point and advantage of leaving the EU is????

I find your premise simply ludicrous.

Tom

 

[flecc]

Whenever you do a deal, some court must be elected to arbitrate.
After brexit, the number of international courts is going to multiply because we would be dealing direct with more countries.

Which makes the demand to be free of the ECJ even more ridiculous, especially when it has never done us any harm but has brought us benefits.

We do after all have our own judges sitting on the ECJ, but won't have on all those other national courts.

This more than anything makes Brexiters look really stupid.
.

 

[oldtom]

I love this article in The Independent today, particularly the short video clip of David Davis hypothesising about the kind of 'extremely streamlined' customs arrangements the UK will have in place before we finally exit the EU.

Sadly, Davis has only one concern and that is to get the best deal for the wealthy business moguls who underwrite the tory party. He has no empathy whatsoever with the common man or woman whom he sees as just a nuisance that needs to be furnished with lies and false promises before each election comes around.

In Davis's world, workers are just there to work hard for as little as employers can get away with and if they can be replaced with robots then he certainly wouldn't give a tinker's cuss about what happens to those disenfranchised people - they are simply collateral damage in the class war and necessary in order to permit the few to further expand their wealth.

At the international level, Davis is out of his depth and is talking out of his rear orifice, lying to the people of this country about what the future holds once the secession takes place. It's simply another fantasy for consumption by the idiots.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/brexit-eu-bank-cuts-off-cash-for-british-building-projects-s2qvc66z2

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Today's Times brings the unsurprising news that May is about to welch on another promise, this one made in her first party conference speech as leader:

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/theresa-may-abandons-pledge-to-curb-boardroom-pay-90dgjmmjp?shareToken=495e716743db4936abb408da3863c23a

Tom

 

[Woosh]

So, the point and advantage of leaving the EU is????

I find your premise simply ludicrous.

Tom

let's say you want to use the swimming pool but the club won't give you a reduced annual membership fee or let you have a partial membership. You may go along with full membership until the day that you find that full membership is too cumbersome and/or expensive. You ask members of your family for a vote.
Don't blame those who vote out, you should have thought more about the possible result before asking for their opinion.But you are where you are. Look around, the EFTA club may be just what you need, small but low maintenance and easy going.
Remind me again, what is the size of the EU budget?
We are currently in a bind because our manufacturing is mostly foreign owned, we are therefore liable to lose a substantial number of jobs if we leave but it you wind the clock forward 10-20 years after WTO brexit, manufacturing may no longer be foreign owned (if there is a tariff border, the latter will make 'distributed supply chain' uneconomical), and we would have collected a very substantial amount in import duty on EU goods. Think of Japan.

 

[shemozzle999]

Which makes the demand to be free of the ECJ even more ridiculous, especially when it has never done us any harm but has brought us benefits.

We do after all have our own judges sitting on the ECJ, but won't have on all those other national courts.

This more than anything makes Brexiters look really stupid.
.

The ECJ rules on all matters European - the UK will be leaving Europe and shall become a Third Country so will not be in need of it's services - what is stupid about that, please explain further?

 

[oldgroaner]

if we leave but it you wind the clock forward 10-20 years after WTO brexit, manufacturing may no longer be foreign owned

Because there isn't any at all?
Why would there be any incentive to invest here when there are far safer places to make a quick killing?
The idea that we have to suffer for nothing for 10 to 20 years is simply Bloody stupid, and have no guarantee of being even remotely as well off as we are now?
What madness is this?
BREXIT

 

[oldgroaner]

The ECJ rules on all matters European - the UK will be leaving Europe and shall become a Third Country so will not be in need of it's services - what is stupid about that, please explain further?

We don't need to as you are quite capable of working that out for yourself
But I'll give you a clue
"
ECJ judge Professor Sir David Edward made the point that: ‘You can escape the jurisdiction of the ECJ, but you have got to comply with EU standards if you are going to export into the EU.’ Who decides the standards? Well, ultimately they're interpreted by the ECJ.

Also, if we leave the ECJ's jurisdiction there will no longer be UK judges at the court. So it will influence us - but we will not be able to influence it."

Stupid idea giving it up, isn't it?
Just what do we get by losing influence? absolutely NOTHING, except we will be at it's mercy.
Smart move!

 

[oldtom]

You ask members of your family for a vote.
Don't blame those who vote out

Your analogy is worthless as my family members would be well informed of the pros and cons before deciding.

That, as you well know, was not the case in the EU referendum - no detail was presented in order that the electorate could make an informed choice based on any costed plan. The UK's racist element listened to rabblerousers promising to rid the country of immigrants and that was enough for them - they had no clue about the economics involved but they didn't, and still don't, care about that. They want to be English and don't give a flying fig about anything else. Neither do they care about their fellow man.

Tom

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think it was KudosDave who recently described himself as happy to be identified as European.

Looking at my own genealogy, I am equally delighted to be known as European, not because of the geographical aspect, more because my lineage has Irish, Scots and French connections. I expect if the 'Brexidiots' were to examine their own family history, many of them would discover that they are not the thoroughbred English stock that they imagine themselves to be.

Tom

I consider myself as a European and look where I was born! My whole education was European with a bit of an English bias (OK, a completely English bias). I tried to like England but the weather got to me so I settled in France. Now I am considering moving to Spain. I will never be French or Spanish but I am most definitely European.

I describe myself to those who ask about my accent (when speaking in the other European languages I have learnt along the way) as a European who was born in NZ. You don't choose your place of birth, your parents do that for you, but you can choose the place where you live and I am glad I have chosen the EU.

The old saying "home is where your heart is" rings true for me, my heart is in the EU.

 

[Woosh]

Why would there be any incentive to invest here when there are far safer places to make a quick killing?

that is precisely why I support a soft brexit.
Our economy will be less subjected to market forces where the big multinationals can use 'distributed chain of supplies' to divide the workforce and technologies, and make lots of profit where they get a special tax deal to the detriment of the locals.
You can see the result on the housing market: the fear of brexit causes a slump in demand, making access to owning a house easier for young people.
You need to open your eyes to different choices. It's much more difficult for us to sell to China and Japan compared to importing their goods. Tariffs and other barriers have a purpose too.

 

[flecc]

The ECJ rules on all matters European - the UK will be leaving Europe and shall become a Third Country so will not be in need of it's services - what is stupid about that, please explain further?

What is utterly stupid is having losing the ECJ as a reason to leave the EU.

It's done no harm, it has done much good for us and UK judges sit on that court.

In any case we are in need of its services for many years to come, quite likely decades. The great repeal bill to absorb EU law into UK law brings in numerous laws that specify the ECJ as the final arbiter. It will be a very long time before we are able to amend every one of those laws individually.
.

 

[oldtom]

The NHS is 70 years old and is now constantly under threat, solely from the tory Party and their billionaire friends and backers.

Those people want to carve up all NHS services and make enormous profits for already very rich companies and corporations by abolishing free, cradle-to-grave healthcare.

The winter of 1947 was among the coldest on record - thousands died directly as a result of infections attributable to their poverty. Nye Bevan managed to convince enough people in parliament that we needed to establish an NHS and he finally got his way. Times were tough then but the NHS improved the quality of life for millions of our citizens. It was free at the point of need but we all had to contribute to the fund for all of our working lives. It was the greatest insurance policy ever for British people.

As 'Brexit' is moving us backwards as a society, austerity will become more severe in the future and abject poverty will reduce many to poverty. The NHS will be placed under even greater strain, starved of the funding it needs by a tory government intent on destroying it and as many poor people as they can in the process.

https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1958005464413383

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Here is an interesting view from a Frenchman:

uk-brexit-lost-sympathy

Tom

 

[Danidl]

that is precisely why I support a soft brexit.
Our economy will be less subjected to market forces where the big multinationals can use 'distributed chain of supplies' to divide the workforce and technologies, and make lots of profit where they get a special tax deal to the detriment of the locals.
You can see the result on the housing market: the fear of brexit causes a slump in demand, making access to owning a house easier for young people.
You need to open your eyes to different choices. It's much more difficult for us to sell to China and Japan compared to importing their goods. Tariffs and other barriers have a purpose too.

If there is to be a Brexit, the softest possible one is the most preferable. But is that likely?

 

[oldgroaner]

that is precisely why I support a soft brexit.
Our economy will be less subjected to market forces where the big multinationals can use 'distributed chain of supplies' to divide the workforce and technologies, and make lots of profit where they get a special tax deal to the detriment of the locals.
You can see the result on the housing market: the fear of brexit causes a slump in demand, making access to owning a house easier for young people.
You need to open your eyes to different choices. It's much more difficult for us to sell to China and Japan compared to importing their goods. Tariffs and other barriers have a purpose too.

And you can't buy a house without job security, and that is going out of the window isn't it?

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[Danidl]

The ECJ rules on all matters European - the UK will be leaving Europe and shall become a Third Country so will not be in need of it's services - what is stupid about that, please explain further?

That will be true, when the UK neither imports or exports any goods through Europe, when it no longer uses other European airlines ,. And when it repatriates all of its own subjects . Is a new Albania or North Korea your desired outcome? Under those circumstances it will finally be free of ECJ engagement.

 

[Woosh]

And you can't buy a house without job security, and that is going out of the window isn't it?

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you would probably have better job security if we join EFTA than remaining in the EU.
Just compare pay between members of EFTA and members of EU. Higher wages stimulate investment, improve productivity.

 

[oldgroaner]

you would probably have better job security if we join EFTA than remaining in the EU.
Just compare pay between members of EFTA and members of EU.

Not when the Tory's have reduced workers rights

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