Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

There's a great article in The Guardian about remarks by Harry Leslie Smith which I would urge everyone to read:

1939-second-world-war-fascist-thundering-approach-hitler

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

So thats it then....IN MARCH ,2019 WE ARE LEAVING THE CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are leaving...IN MARCH,2019 WE ARE JOINING THE UK-EU CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are joining.
Thank goodness that's all been made clear !!!!!!!
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

So thats it then....IN MARCH ,2019 WE ARE LEAVING THE CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are leaving...IN MARCH,2019 WE ARE JOINING THE UK-EU CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are joining.
Thank goodness that's all been made clear !!!!!!!
KudosDave

Beware the ides of March, not just one Caesar but 65 millions could be stabbed in the back then.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Ok so I am a bicycle importer in Northern Ireland,I bring a container load of bikes in from China,no tariff,duty free.....I am a bicycle importer in Ireland,I bring a container load of bikes from China,I pay 55% duty and anti dumping duty. My customers travel from Ireland to Northern Ireland buy their bikes 50% cheaper and ride the bikes back into Ireland,seamlessly!!!!
That is what David Davis and Liam Fox are expecting the EU to agree with????...No wonder Barnier is starting to lose his patience,we are treating the EU as though they are stupid....they probably think we are stupid to even suggest it.
Back to square one Davis,May,Fox and Boris...I think Hammond saw this coming.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

Ok so I am a bicycle importer in Northern Ireland,I bring a container load of bikes in from China,no tariff,duty free.....I am a bicycle importer in Ireland,I bring a container load of bikes from China,I pay 55% duty and anti dumping duty. My customers travel from Ireland to Northern Ireland buy their bikes 50% cheaper and ride the bikes back into Ireland,seamlessly!!!!
That is what David Davis and Liam Fox are expecting the EU to agree with????...No wonder Barnier is starting to lose his patience,we are treating the EU as though they are stupid....they probably think we are stupid to even suggest it.
Back to square one Davis,May,Fox and Boris...I think Hammond saw this coming.
KudosDave

... A Glasgow importer buys his container load, and then sells them at a wee profit to the good bike shops in Lisburn , Derry or London Derry ( for Tommie s sensitivities), and we go up , buy them then flog them on to the multitude of EU students who are now coming to Ireland, in preference to the UK, or I finance my trips to France, by putting 10 in my trailer..

 

[tommie]

... A Glasgow importer buys his container load, and then sells them at a wee profit to the good bike shops in Lisburn , Derry or London Derry ( for Tommie s sensitivities), and we go up , buy them then flog them on to the multitude of EU students who are now coming to Ireland, in preference to the UK, or I finance my trips to France, by putting 10 in my trailer..

*rubs hands in anticipation*

told you this was a runner Dan,
i know of a superb location, in fact you may know of it yourself, it`s a long hayshed, it is split near the bottom end with a 6" gap running all the way through the walls and roof.
As i was, erm, attending to my Renault at the time i questioned the gap, surely it`ll let the rain in?
No we can`t cover that, thats the border!
I stepped over the gap into the ROI (EU) and behold a massive tank sat on rafters in the corner feeding into the pumps in the North end (UK). Apparently the tanks and the pumps were interchangeable should the need arise,
very ingenious setup

so there you are, container load in one end, Dan with trailer load out the other end, what could be simpler?
Cross-community trading at it`s finest.

 

[oldgroaner]

So thats it then....IN MARCH ,2019 WE ARE LEAVING THE CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are leaving...IN MARCH,2019 WE ARE JOINING THE UK-EU CUSTOMS UNION,no ifs,no buts we are joining.
Thank goodness that's all been made clear !!!!!!!
KudosDave

Sorry to appear Picky....but does the EU know , or are we going to spring this as a surprise when they get desperate for something....anything where they understand what we actually want?

Our situation vis a vis the EU reminds me of the Harry Carpenter interview with Brian London after his disastrous fight with Muhammad Ali.

Carpenter asked London if he fancied a rematch and London replied
"Not much point really, but I had him worried in the Third Round!"

Carpenter gasped in surprise and managed not laugh, asking
"How do you work that out?"
Brian London replied

"He thought he'd killed me!"

 

[oldgroaner]

Truly it gets Funnier by the Day
This from the BBC
"
Brexit: UK suggests 'untested' customs system with EU
he government says it will propose an "innovative and untested approach" to customs checks as part of its Brexit negotiations.

The model, one of two being put forward in a newly-published paper, would mean no customs checks at UK-EU borders.

The UK's alternative proposal - a more efficient system of border checks - would involve "an increase in administration", it admits.

A key EU figure said the idea of "invisible borders" was a "fantasy".

On Twitter, Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's negotiator, added that other issues had to be agreed before negotiations on trade could begin - views echoed by the EU's overall chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Scotland's first minister Nicola Sturgeon accused the UK of a "daft have cake and eat it" approach.
According to the new paper, the UK could ask Brussels to establish a "temporary customs union" after it leaves the EU in March 2019.

But during this period, it would also expect to be able to negotiate its own international trade deals - something it cannot do as an EU customs union member.

Once this period expires, the UK will look to agree either a "highly streamlined" border with the EU, or a new "partnership" with no customs border at all.
The "partnership" arrangement would be an "innovative and untested approach" which would remove the need for any customs checks between the UK and the EU. This would be because the UK's regime would "align precisely" with the EU's, for goods that will be consumed in the EU.

However, the UK would continue to operate its own checks on goods coming from outside the EU - and the government said safeguards would be needed to prevent goods entering the EU that had not complied with its rules.

Sooner or later it will occur to one of our idiot Politicians that the best idea would be to plead for Article 50 to be sent back to us stamped "REJECT" and we all pretend it was just a joke

 

[anotherkiwi]

Truly it gets Funnier by the Day
This from the BBC
"
Brexit: UK suggests 'untested' customs system with EU
he government says it will propose an "innovative and untested approach" to customs checks as part of its Brexit negotiations.

The model, one of two being put forward in a newly-published paper, would mean no customs checks at UK-EU borders.

The UK's alternative proposal - a more efficient system of border checks - would involve "an increase in administration", it admits.

A key EU figure said the idea of "invisible borders" was a "fantasy".

On Twitter, Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's negotiator, added that other issues had to be agreed before negotiations on trade could begin - views echoed by the EU's overall chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Scotland's first minister Nicola Sturgeon accused the UK of a "daft have cake and eat it" approach.
According to the new paper, the UK could ask Brussels to establish a "temporary customs union" after it leaves the EU in March 2019.

But during this period, it would also expect to be able to negotiate its own international trade deals - something it cannot do as an EU customs union member.

Once this period expires, the UK will look to agree either a "highly streamlined" border with the EU, or a new "partnership" with no customs border at all.
The "partnership" arrangement would be an "innovative and untested approach" which would remove the need for any customs checks between the UK and the EU. This would be because the UK's regime would "align precisely" with the EU's, for goods that will be consumed in the EU.

However, the UK would continue to operate its own checks on goods coming from outside the EU - and the government said safeguards would be needed to prevent goods entering the EU that had not complied with its rules.

Sooner or later it will occur to one of our idiot Politicians that the best idea would be to plead for Article 50 to be sent back to us stamped "REJECT" and we all pretend it was just a joke

Excuse me but my brain can't quite get around "border-less border"... Back to square one, the UK wants all the advantages of being a member of the EU and doesn't want to cough up coin for the kitty. Nothing new here, next subject please...

 

[oldgroaner]

Excuse me but my brain can't quite get around "border-less border"... Back to square one, the UK wants all the advantages of being a member of the EU and doesn't want to cough up coin for the kitty. Nothing new here, next subject please...

Let me explain
Brexit is a game of Charades to kid the voters the government has a clue, when it really hasn't a hope in hell of making it work, and is hoping something will turn up or be imposed on them to get them off the hook

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Danidl]

Truly it gets Funnier by the Day
This from the BBC
"
Brexit: UK suggests 'untested' customs system with EU
he government says it will propose an "innovative and untested approach" to customs checks as part of its Brexit negotiations.

The model, one of two being put forward in a newly-published paper, would mean no customs checks at UK-EU borders.

The UK's alternative proposal - a more efficient system of border checks - would involve "an increase in administration", it admits.

A key EU figure said the idea of "invisible borders" was a "fantasy".

On Twitter, Guy Verhofstadt, the European Parliament's negotiator, added that other issues had to be agreed before negotiations on trade could begin - views echoed by the EU's overall chief negotiator, Michel Barnier.

Scotland's first minister Nicola Sturgeon accused the UK of a "daft have cake and eat it" approach.
According to the new paper, the UK could ask Brussels to establish a "temporary customs union" after it leaves the EU in March 2019.

But during this period, it would also expect to be able to negotiate its own international trade deals - something it cannot do as an EU customs union member.

Once this period expires, the UK will look to agree either a "highly streamlined" border with the EU, or a new "partnership" with no customs border at all.
The "partnership" arrangement would be an "innovative and untested approach" which would remove the need for any customs checks between the UK and the EU. This would be because the UK's regime would "align precisely" with the EU's, for goods that will be consumed in the EU.

However, the UK would continue to operate its own checks on goods coming from outside the EU - and the government said safeguards would be needed to prevent goods entering the EU that had not complied with its rules.

Sooner or later it will occur to one of our idiot Politicians that the best idea would be to plead for Article 50 to be sent back to us stamped "REJECT" and we all pretend it was just a joke

OG, you might consider it funny or amusing, but from my perspective it is anything but. ... Notwithstanding the business opportunity I might have with Tommie, the prospect of a real border 10 miles from me, the backlog of trucks, the increased border guards and customs, the likelihood of the EU border force policing it,
While I have not actually seen the scenario that Tommie described, I understand that it is no fantasy. There are farm houses with front and back doors in the two different jurisdictions. It didn't matter yesterday, but in a Brexit tomorrow it will.

 

[oldgroaner]

What a Dilemma the Government faces.
They have realised that going back to having proper border and Custom controls are both costly and difficult to control, and their promises of controlling immigration are too, witness for instance the fuss they have made for many years over the EU allegedly preventing them excluding EU citizens who are unable to support themselves by finding work using a fallacious excuse they can't because of "ECJ Human rights lawyers are preventing this happening"
Lies!
When all along the real reason was that they were too incompetent to organise to do what every other EU country does and record who comes in and trace their whereabouts, in other words use the existing powers they had all along, and why?
Because it costs money
Much cheaper to blame the ECJ
Now the shower will have to find the money and do some organising, or perhaps simply lie to the Public and find some new excuse?

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, you might consider it funny or amusing, but from my perspective it is anything but. ...

Of course it is funny..................Peculiar,................. not Funny Ha ha.
How else can you describe it?

And your reaction is perhaps a little odd after your banter with Tommie over Smuggling, don't you think?

Humour is all that is left to us, remember I come from Hull, where famously a Music Hall comedian got a laugh on stage the day after one of the heaviest air raids of the war when he observed

"The luftwaffe raided a North Eastern port (BBC Euphemism at that time for Hull) and did a Million Pounds worth of improvements."

Lighten up a little there!

 

[Kudoscycles]

OG, you might consider it funny or amusing, but from my perspective it is anything but. ... Notwithstanding the business opportunity I might have with Tommie, the prospect of a real border 10 miles from me, the backlog of trucks, the increased border guards and customs, the likelihood of the EU border force policing it,
While I have not actually seen the scenario that Tommie described, I understand that it is no fantasy. There are farm houses with front and back doors in the two different jurisdictions. It didn't matter yesterday, but in a Brexit tomorrow it will.

I live 10 miles from Dover...the French are past masters of closing Calais which results in the M20 becoming a lorry park all the way to London. The government were meant to build operation stack by now but that's gone quiet,probably didn't want to spend the money.
Our border customs are recognised by the EU as the most incompetent to collecting import tariff and check vat ,God knows how they are going to cope post Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[OxygenJames]

And there we have it. Despite the wails of anguish from the 30% left who think we should not leave the EU Davis and co have come up with some perfectly sensible solutions. 40 years waiting. It's all going rather well now don't you think?

 

[Kudoscycles]

And there we have it. Despite the wails of anguish from the 30% left who think we should not leave the EU Davis and co have come up with some perfectly sensible solutions. 40 years waiting. It's all going rather well now don't you think?

I am worried that you might be serious?
KudosDave

 

[OxygenJames]

Well. Sort of Dave. I've got nothing better to do that come here and wind people up. Which is bad I know. But heck - here we are over a year on from project fear - and the world still exists! Amazing. Tom is still being kept happy by being able to moan on (and on) about Brexit. People who don't actually know how its going to be are about as worried as they can be. But heck I know we're at the stage now where facts have very little to do with anything seeing as each side picks the facts that most fit its opinion. Everybody as usual has to be right. I still think in ten years we will see the benefits clear as day. But that's just me I know. And around here its not a popular opinion. But heck. Here we are. Once more.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Breaking News....Liam Fox assisted by BAE systems and Jacobs Engineering have signed the first new UK free trade agreement....Fox has described this as a momentous event and shows that the UK is open for business.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Well. Sort of Dave. I've got nothing better to do that come here and wind people up. Which is bad I know. But heck - here we are over a year on from project fear - and the world still exists! Amazing. Tom is still being kept happy by being able to moan on (and on) about Brexit. People who don't actually know how its going to be are about as worried as they can be. But heck I know we're at the stage now where facts have very little to do with anything seeing as each side picks the facts that most fit its opinion. Everybody as usual has to be right. I still think in ten years we will see the benefits clear as day. But that's just me I know. And around here its not a popular opinion. But heck. Here we are. Once more.

Colin (KTM) and I would find it interesting as to what you see in 10 years time that some of us are missing?
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

And there we have it. Despite the wails of anguish from the 30% left who think we should not leave the EU Davis and co have come up with some perfectly sensible solutions. 40 years waiting. It's all going rather well now don't you think?

'Perfectly sensible solutions'....this customs deal is the UK demanding that the EU let us have 'cake and eat it,with a cherry on top'...if you read some of my recent postings you will realise why it won't work.
The only way the EU will consider this deal is if we agree to maintain the current EU import tariffs,to which Liam Fox will throw his toys out of his pram...Fox doesn't have a job at the moment and won't have a job post Brexit,if he is relying on this deal.
The EU will also insist that these import deals are governed by the ECJ to which Theresa May would throw a wobbler.
Now I know you are serious ,no it's not going well,no sensible person would ever think that the EU would agree to this bespoke customs union....it has been suggested to try to heal the wounds inside the cabinet but from Hammonds comments it hasn't lasted 24 hours.
KudosDave