Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

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Nov 26, 2016
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"""Jeremy Corbyn's links to the IRA were at the centre of a growing row after he repeatedly refused to condemn the actions of Republican terrorists.

The Labour leader was asked five times to denounce the IRA yesterday but chose instead to state his opposition to "all bombing".

When asked if he could unequivocally condemn the IRA, Mr Corbyn said: " No, I think what you have to say is all bombing has to be condemned."

It can also be revealed that Mr Corbyn was heavily involved with London Labour Briefing - a hard-left magazine which celebrated the Brighton bomb and joked about the death of Conservative MPs.

Evidence emerged yesterday that Mr Corbyn was involved in the magazine, which praised the bomb designed to kill Margaret Thatcher in an article that read: "The British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it" and "What do you call four dead Tories? A start"."""

Seems there simply isn't a party worthy of a vote.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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"""Jeremy Corbyn's links to the IRA were at the centre of a growing row after he repeatedly refused to condemn the actions of Republican terrorists.

The Labour leader was asked five times to denounce the IRA yesterday but chose instead to state his opposition to "all bombing".

When asked if he could unequivocally condemn the IRA, Mr Corbyn said: " No, I think what you have to say is all bombing has to be condemned."

It can also be revealed that Mr Corbyn was heavily involved with London Labour Briefing - a hard-left magazine which celebrated the Brighton bomb and joked about the death of Conservative MPs.

Evidence emerged yesterday that Mr Corbyn was involved in the magazine, which praised the bomb designed to kill Margaret Thatcher in an article that read: "The British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it" and "What do you call four dead Tories? A start"."""

Seems there simply isn't a party worthy of a vote.
What is the source, out of curiosity?
Mind you I wholeheartedly agree there isn't a party worthy of a Vote.
 
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Woosh

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Mind you I wholeheartedly agree there isn't a party worthy of a Vote.
If you believe in something, shouldn't you vote for it?
or are you now implying no party is pro remain?
 

Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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"""Jeremy Corbyn's links to the IRA were at the centre of a growing row after he repeatedly refused to condemn the actions of Republican terrorists.

The Labour leader was asked five times to denounce the IRA yesterday but chose instead to state his opposition to "all bombing".

When asked if he could unequivocally condemn the IRA, Mr Corbyn said: " No, I think what you have to say is all bombing has to be condemned."

It can also be revealed that Mr Corbyn was heavily involved with London Labour Briefing - a hard-left magazine which celebrated the Brighton bomb and joked about the death of Conservative MPs.

Evidence emerged yesterday that Mr Corbyn was involved in the magazine, which praised the bomb designed to kill Margaret Thatcher in an article that read: "The British only sit up and take notice [of Ireland] when they are bombed into it" and "What do you call four dead Tories? A start"."""

Seems there simply isn't a party worthy of a vote.
.. wasn't he correct.. irish nationalism and a desire to have a thirty two county state is a legitimate political aim. Seeking to retain a union with the mainland of England Scotland and Wales is also a legitimate political aim. Killing and bombing people in order to achieve or retain either objective it is not a legitimate political process. Attack the actions not the motivation.
Did not your own Queen shake the hand of allegedly a very senior member of that organisation.?
Regrettably and to the shame of the Westminster government, the quote about the British only taking notice of Ireland under extreme conditions, has the ring of truth to it. It allowed a statelet under its direct control engage in discrimination for decades without calling it to account. Only after summer 69 did it make any attempts, and then backed off any progress until shamed by US involvement.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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Well Dave. There's so many places one could start. Let's do an easy one right off: balancing out of the economy. Right now there is a massive North South problem as well as an over-reliance on financial services.

On the financial services side one possible effect of Brexit is that some of the big names in financial services may move jobs to the continent to ensure free access to the Single Market. This effect will probably be rather limited. London has too many competitive advantages to cease being a world-leading financial centre, though it seems plausible a small percentage of jobs may move to Paris or Frankfurt.

The large drop in the value of the pound has already helped as manufacturers report higher volumes and confidence - pretty much across the board - another 5% off would help but the pound is now within what the IMF says it should be trading (rather than being valued way too high in the IMF's opinion before the vote).

But there are a number of other ways the UK economy can move onto a stronger footing post Brexit. The introduction of free ports – effectively impossible while within the Customs Union – could greatly benefit the UK’s port towns. A good portion of these towns are located in the North and in areas of relative poverty. Most are also outside the congested and already economic developed area of the South East.

Free ports would go a long way towards addressing the double-headed inequity of a bias towards services in the UK economy and the North-South divide. UK ports are some of the world’s most advanced, and with countries queueing up to sign trade deals with us after Brexit, this could be a major source of extra economic growth.

There is also the likelihood that the UK fishing industry will start to grow strongly, given the right policy from Government, when we leave the Common Fisheries Policy. Again, the towns and cities ripe to reap the rewards of this are located in relatively poorer areas, far from the South East of the UK.

Like I said - I think this will all take some considerable time to play out in the numbers - but there is much reason to be optimistic if one can look at things with an open mind.
Ok,I have the background of what you and millions of northerners want to achieve....a balance in the wealth sharing in the UK,if you reread your own post that is what comes across and really one of the reasons why so many northerners voted Brexit.
I can respect that but Brexit wasnt the right tool to achieve it.
I have many wealthy friends in the city of London and none of them wants to move to Frankfurt(boring),Paris(too expensive and high taxed) but they are being forced to by this stupid Brexit decision. I can assure you the numbers are not small and these are highly taxed people.
I buy from 130 companies around the world and sell to most countries including every EU country,the currency movement is a 2-way street,most imports are either Euro or Dollar sourced,so my import costs have increased substantially,so my prices have gone up which pretty much balances with the strength of the Euro. So the Euro buyer has more power but he has to pay more,which is why exports have not increased.
The exception to that is if its old stock or goods we make here,but we are not capable of making goods here competitively,mainly due to governments not incentivising manufacturing,in contrast to the chinese who have cheap loans and government rebates to help their manufacturers.
You have bought into the Liam Fox international business school....yes countries are queuing up to sign free trade deals with the UK,but wait for the details...I buy e-bikes,I cannot import bicycles because of 55% EU tariff duty,but if we had a free trade deal with China,I could bring in beautiful Dahon folders so cheap or Flying Pigeon work bikes so cheap,that Brompton and Pashley would struggle to compete with. Our leather goods manufacturers would be out of business overnight,the EU protects our steel industry, without the tariffs the chinese would destroy Tata,with massive problems at Port Talbot.
Trump is offering us a very powerful free trade deal,so that he can ship cheap beef and poultry into the UK,I am sure our farmers would be outraged at the lack of control or hygiene on US product,the EU may use it as an excuse to stop our farm produce being shipped to Europe.
Please understand,I spend hundreds of thousands on import tariffs every year so selfishly I would love a free trade deal with China and my businesses would be the first conduit for goods that would do a lot of damage to whats left of UK manufacturing.
Free ports already exist at Felixstowe and Southampton but these are primarily holding ports to ship to non EU countries,most of our exports are with the EU so I dont understand their purpose.
Gove has already said he wants the Danes to have access to our inshore fishing waters after Brexit ,why I dont know but it seems to take away much of the reason to Brexit for our fisherman.
I can assure you I do look at things with an open mind...this government will look after people like me...reduction in workers rights,removal of some annoying EU standards,lowering of corporation tax,turning a blind eye to zero hours,no sick/holiday pay contracts,removal of anti-dumping duties,back door deals with banks/car builders to keep them here.....but I just dont see how any of this is going to help the poor areas of the UK...note how evasive Hammond is when he talks about the maintenance of EU subsidies to poor farmers,research institutions,regional assistance...Boris and Gove never showed you the other side of the big red bus,the negative side,hehe....
KudosDave
 
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Kudoscycles

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Apr 15, 2011
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brexit offers us a chance to re-assess our place in the world and our politics.
We are facing all the well known post wars issues: ageing population, increasing competition from other countries emerging from WW2 but suffering less damage than we did, the rise of education in previously less well educated countries, exhaustion of natural resources due to our early industrialisation and still having lots of old factories, based on small family businesses.
The EU hems us in. There aren't many ways to solve these issues within the current EU framework.
Woosh....you buy from China,you know the extent of cheap loans and subsidized exports out of China,some of my suppliers work on nil profit relying on the rebates for profit. Brexit is not suddenly going to make our government,whatever colour,incentivise industry,we havent the cash to do it.
Recent government moves are clearly trying to place burdens onto industry and self reliance onto people,not the state.....workplace pensions,universal credit,the social care deal ( albeit ill fated),allowance of zero hours contracts,increase in NIC,they would love to privatise the NHS....all intended to make the people more self reliant...if you are wealthy (Redwood,Rees-Mogg) its all no problem.
KudosDave
 
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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countless sources OG, common knowledge really, where there`s terrorists murdering and maiming there`s a Corybn in there supporting them, Ireland, Spain, Middle East, S. America.. the list is endless
Tommie have you a clear and universally acceptable definition of a terrorist? I certainly don't. I abhor anyone deliberately inflicting pain on another.
 
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Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
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Brexit is not suddenly going to make our government,whatever colour,incentivise industry,we havent the cash to do it.
Recent government moves are clearly trying to place burdens onto industry and self reliance onto people,not the state.....workplace pensions,universal credit,the social care deal ( albeit ill fated),allowance of zero hours contracts,increase in NIC,they would love to privatise the NHS....all intended to make the people more self reliant...if you are wealthy (Redwood,Rees-Mogg) its all no problem.
You don't know what will happen after brexit. Not even the current government whose principal objectives are:

1. say no to the ECJ, customs union and freedom of movement
2. get a free trade deal with the EU to minimize job losses

The rest will depend on the outcome of the first two. Those in government are not even sure how soon 1) can be achieved leave alone 2).

There is every reason to hope and expect that the tories will lose their hold on power at the next GE and we will have a soft brexit, just out of the ECJ but staying in the customs union.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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Tommie have you a clear and universally acceptable definition of a terrorist? I certainly don't. I abhor anyone deliberately inflicting pain on another.
Don't play that card Danid, we all know exactly what and who are terrorists. Yes ,times change but blowing up innocents in name of any cause can never be countenanced. ( unless its Tony Blair ofcourse)
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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Don't play that card Danid, we all know exactly what and who are terrorists. Yes ,times change but blowing up innocents in name of any cause can never be countenanced. ( unless its Tony Blair ofcourse)
So how do you describe politicians who sell weapons to dodgy regimes?
 
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oldgroaner

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You don't know what will happen after brexit. Not even the current government whose principal objectives are:

1. say no to the ECJ, customs union and freedom of movement
2. get a free trade deal with the EU to minimize job losses

The rest will depend on the outcome of the first two. Those in government are not even sure how soon 1) can be achieved leave alone 2).

There is every reason to hope and expect that the tories will lose their hold on power at the next GE and we will have a soft brexit, just out of the ECJ but staying in the customs union.
A completely unsatisfactory fudge to keep a damn fool idea tottering along a bit longer.
 
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oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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countless sources OG, common knowledge really, where there`s terrorists murdering and maiming there`s a Corybn in there supporting them, Ireland, Spain, Middle East, S. America.. the list is endless
Supporting them, in what way? is supporting the idea of Irish unity actually supporting terrorism, or is that simply your view of it because you oppose unification of ireland?
And for your information the biggest supporters of terrorism are our own government supplying arms to dodgy regimes.
 
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Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
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So how do you describe politicians who sell weapons to dodgy regimes?
Terrorists, what do you call them? Two wrongs have never made a right and campaigning for peace through dialogue does nor mean supporting terrorists at all. People could support the cause but still not condone " terrorism" in attempts to attain that goal.They are a world apart and you know it.


Its strange how folk on here supported calling leavers racists fir simply voting leave but for some odd reason get confused about calling people who shoot and blow up general public terrorists. You are muddying the water to justify your stance .
 
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oldgroaner

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Terrorists, what do you call them? Two wrongs have never made a right and campaigning for peace through dialogue does nor mean supporting terrorists at all. People could support the cause but still not condone " terrorism" in attempts to attain that goal.They are a world apart and you know it.


Its strange how folk on here supported calling leavers racists fir simply voting leave but for some odd reason get confused about calling people who shoot and blow up general public terrorists. You are muddying the water to justify your stance .
Sorry I'm not with you at all, I am not and have not called leave voters racists, and am pointing out that promoting terrorism by selling weapons to create conditions where terrorism occurs is an even greater crime.
I have not commented on Corbyn's alleged connections with the IRA, as speaking to them is not to my mind lending support to them.
His support for the Republican cause is well known, and quite legitimate.

And in no way am I conflating terrorism with the Brexit vote, even if you are for some strange reason
 
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Danidl

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Don't play that card Danid, we all know exactly what and who are terrorists. Yes ,times change but blowing up innocents in name of any cause can never be countenanced. ( unless its Tony Blair ofcourse)
We don't. Almost every group labeled terrorist by some group are viewed as defenders or freedom fighters by another. Your working definition would condemn those drone pilots in fort Bragg as terrorist.
 
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flecc

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Oct 25, 2006
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There is every reason to hope and expect that the tories will lose their hold on power at the next GE and we will have a soft brexit, just out of the ECJ but staying in the customs union.
We can't even just be out of the ECJ, it's too inextricably bound into our laws and the forthcoming repeal bill elements for it to be removed from all the legislation in a forseeable timescale.

It will just be another fudge, token removal from influence in new measures and amendments to existing measures as they take place.

A blanket law removal of the ECJ in favour of our own Supreme Court is politically impossible, since the law and standards the ECJ uses is all EU, and we have hardly any equivalents. We'd look stupid if our Supreme Court had to use EU laws and standards in their judgements!
.
 

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
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I don't understand what the government intend on the Irish border,it seems to me they have sketchy ideas that are being put forward for consultation.
They have already admitted that without a hard border immigrants will be free to move from Ireland into Northern Ireland and thus into the UK,are we going to have passport checks from N.I. into mainland UK....cannot see hard Brexiters being happy with this.
They will let small businesses move goods freely across the border,what is a small business? and big businesses will voluntarily and honestly declare goods movements online.....there is no way that the EU is going to agree to such a vague arrangement. Ireland would be seen as the weak spot re tariff smuggling.
Looks like a non starter to me,but the EU will probably waste another six months,it is clearly their aim to use up the UK negotiating time....Barniers 'clock ticking' is real.
Are Brexiters happy with the governments progress so far?
KudosDave
 

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