Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

May I add to that working people don't really connect with millionaire barristers masquerading as representatives of the workers and talking, "faux street" in a pathetic attempt find non-existent common ground. What a bunch of...(very unpleasant word removed).

Anybody know the odds for a record low turn out at next month's election?

Here you are tillson
"
William Hill are predicting that more than £15million could be wagered on next month's Election, but are offering just 2/1 at time of writing that the turnout is lower than the than 59.4% in 2001.

Voter turnout for the last general election in 2015 was 66.1%.

 

[Zlatan]

Notice with a touch of irony that Alan Sugar suggests he,d now vote for May !!!
Sums labour party up at moment. One of Gordon Browns chief advisers ( if you believe the hype) is now a Tory..

 

[Wicky]

Well done Zlatan, this is what your Brexit vote has bought

"The Conservatives will also seek to regulate the kind of news that is posted online and how companies are paid for it. If elected, Theresa May will "take steps to protect the reliability and objectivity of information that is essential to our democracy" – and crack down on Facebook and Google to ensure that news companies get enough advertising money.

Aren't you pleased with the Bright free future "Getting back Sovereignty" is bringing?
Regulated News; the new name for Fascist Propaganda

Out goes A Modest Proposal - For Preventing the Children of Poor People in Ireland, from Being a Burden on Their Parents or Country, and for Making Them Beneficial to the Publick. By Jonathan Swift

and the Southend News Network

:-(

 

[Zlatan]

Wonder how much influence riight wing press had on Alan Sugar's change of party.
Its always the faceless we assume to be brainwashed , influenced by propoganda.

 

[oldgroaner]

Wonder how much influence riight wing press had on Alan Sugar's change of party.
Its always the faceless we assume to be brainwashed , influenced by propoganda.

How then do you explain your vote for brexit,?
Or was it masochism or sadism?, hard to see that logic would make you vote for something that has cemented the conservatives in power just to protest that the EU hasn't the power your brexit vote has handed them.
A case of cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind
A bit like jumping out of one of the Titanic's lifeboats into the Atlantic because you don't trust boats!

 

[Woosh]

nothing new, the UK press has always been largely xenophobic for as long as I have been here.

 

[Zlatan]

How then do you explain your vote for brexit,?
Or was it masochism or sadism?, hard to see that logic would make you vote for something that has cemented the conservatives in power just to protest that the EU hasn't the power your brexit vote has handed them.
A case of cutting off your nose to spite your face comes to mind
A bit like jumping out of one of the Titanic's lifeboats into the Atlantic because you don't trust boats!

Perhaps you should spend more time examining your own reasoning and decisions than harping on about mine continually.
Since this has started remainers feel they have the right to attack other's decisions. Seen somebody else on here say it, but its so true, that attitude as only strengthened leavers resolve, and caused more arguments.

 

[tillson]

We are leaving the EU, that is looking increasingly likely. Now the task is to leave in a way which is most advantageous for the UK. Some would argue that simply walking away is better than continued membership on our current terms. So it seems to me that the fall-back position is, if all else fails, that the UK abruptly ends it relationship with the EU.

Davis Davis has stated that is exactly what the UK will do, if the EU continues to demand a high final settlement from the UK before trade negotiations can begin. If this is the Tory's stance, what is all this pi$$ and wind about strong an stable leadership during BREXIT negotiations all about? What is the crap about, "do you want to see Jeremy Corbyn being in charge of BREXIT negotiations" all about? The worst that Corbyn can do is fail to secure a favourable trade deal and leave with nothing, which is what the Tory's are saying they will do.

Is there any wonder that my hatred of all things Conservative is deepening? What options do we have in next month's election? As much as I despise them, I think a Lib-Dem vote, if I actually bother to vote, might be the only option. It's a bit like choosing between crucifixion or disembowelment.

 

[flecc]

MI5 opened file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his IRA links

MI5 opened a file on Jeremy Corbyn amid concerns over his links to the IRA, the Telegraph has discovered.

Will this never end? what dirty tricks have they left?

The tories used the same dirty tricks tactics against Ken Livingstone after he was again elected Mayor of London, raising totally false allegations about corruption and his relationship with a female member of his team.

Ken was far too clever for them though. He immediately called in the Metropolitan Police to investigate the allegations in depth.

Eventually the Met reported that they were unable to find a shred of evidence to support the allegations, they were clearly fabrications.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Perhaps you should spend more time examining your own reasoning and decisions than harping on about mine continually.
Since this has started remainers feel they have the right to attack other's decisions. Seen somebody else on here say it, but its so true, that attitude as only strengthened leavers resolve, and caused more arguments.

You expect to be complimented? And if criticism strengthened your resolve it really isn't something you should be proud of
I keep asking how you intend to put matters right, where is your answer?
My decision was the correct one, what is there to reconsider about that?

 

[oldtom]

As much as I despise them, I think a Lib-Dem vote, if I actually bother to vote, might be the only option. It's a bit like choosing between crucifixion or disembowelment.

I understand your difficulty over this forthcoming election and my gut feeling is that the likeliest result will be a hung parliament causing us once again to be subjected to the unsavoury spectacle of the horse-trading employed by the laughable demo-rats at the 2010 election.

Any result for me which causes power to be wrenched from the grasp of the madwoman, May, will be welcome but I am not entirely convinced that there is no chance of a shock Labour victory as the woman has done herself and her party no favours thus far in her campaign.

As for my local laughable demo-rat, whoever he or she may be, I wouldn't p on that person if he or she were on fire, let alone cast a vote!

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

OG
But I,m not criticizing your decision to vote remain. You have your opinions, I have mine. Difference is you have zero respect for anyone who voted leave.
Pethaps you could attempt to limit your posts to your own opinions rather than simply knocking others.
You do exactly what you criticize with Tory and media. You point out fact media and Tory,s attack Corbyn with a smear campaign but your every post attacks leavers' posts and opinions, specifically mine and actually offer no real alternative or actual advice.

 

[oldtom]

You expect to be complimented? And if criticism strengthened your resolve it really isn't something you should be proud of
I keep asking how you intend to put matters right, where is your answer?
My decision was the correct one, what is there to reconsider about that?

I know you have tried very hard to get through to this particular correspondent OG but it really is a lost cause. There are some who just cannot see the wood for the trees and besides, unless things have changed, only British citizens on board planet Earth are permitted a vote if they meet certain provisions. Last time I checked, trolls are not entitled to participate in elections outside their own planet.

ps Tell me what a 'nurrir' is.

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

OG
But I,m not criticizing your decision to vote remain. You have your opinions, I have mine. Difference is you have zero respect for anyone who voted leave.
Pethaps you could attempt to limit your posts to your own opinions rather than simply knocking others.
You do exactly what you criticize with Tory and media. You point out fact media and Tory,s attack Corbyn with a smear campaign but your every post attacks leavers' posts and opinions, specifically mine and actually offer no real alternative or actual advice.

You are right about one thing, I most cerainly do have ZERO respect for people who voted leave,unless they have realised their mistake and changed their minds, and each day hardens that attitude.
How can anyone expect to be respected for getting us into this nightmare situation?

When something is clearly wrong,antisocial and damaging to the future of the nation. it is simply doing your duty to say so, and I have no intention of asking your worthless permission before I do.

Once again, how are you going to correct your mistake?

Here is some actual advice and it's actually going to benefit you
Emigrate while you can, that way you will avoid suffering the consequences of your actions.
And in future think before Voting for anything.
There you are , I'm pleased to be of help.

 

[Zlatan]

Last two posts sum both yourself and Tom up perfectly.
A pair of loud mouth bigots.

 

[Danidl]

You are right about one thing, I most cerainly do have ZERO respect for people who voted leave,unless they have realised their mistake and changed their minds, and each day hardens that attitude.
How can anyone expect to be respected for getting us into this nightmare situation?

When something is clearly wrong,antisocial and damaging to the future of the nation. it is simply doing your duty to say so, and I have no intention of asking your worthless permission before I do.

Once again, how are you going to correct your mistake?

Here is some actual advice and it's actually going to benefit you
Emigrate while you can, that way you will avoid suffering the consequences of your actions.
And in future think before Voting for anything.
There you are , I'm pleased to be of help.

... The original referendum is ancient history. The only ww pertinent fact is that both your houses of parliament voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. It is their actions at which any ire should be directed, not Zatlan or any other citizen who may have been deluded. You elect representatives who are given the space and .. time and expected to take a considered view, and in the case of the lord's, a long term view, as they are not bound to a short term electorate mandate.

 

[oldgroaner]

... The original referendum is ancient history. The only ww pertinent fact is that both your houses of parliament voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. It is their actions at which any ire should be directed, not Zatlan or any other citizen who may have been deluded. You elect representatives who are given the space and .. time and expected to take a considered view, and in the case of the lord's, a long term view, as they are not bound to a short term electorate mandate.

Sorry No: there is no evading personal responsibility in this, the house of commons are simply going along with the Public Mood.
Before the referendum both parties were against leaving the EU, and it was advisory anyway
In reacting with fear to implied threat of Public unrest, and iplementing the result they will simply create more.
And frankly they cannot be trusted anyway.
Look at the lies, errors, misjudgements and incompetence both major parties have shown over many years.
It's no good looking to them to set an example; they already have and it's a bad one.
This error will continue till the Public mood changes sufficiently to make Parliament react.
Blaming Parliament is simply Blaming the Monkey(Parliament) when the Organ Grinder (Public) Complains in turning the handle he plays the wrong tune.

The Monkey hasn't either the Guts or the Brains to change it.
Responsibility lies with the Voters
This is an utterly unnecessary nightmare the Brexit vote set in motion, by now the public should have seen that was the case, but it hasn't has it?
But it will, oh yes, indeed it will.

 

[Zlatan]

Sorry No: there is no evading personal responsibility in this, the house of commons are simply going along with the Public Mood.
Before the referendum both parties were against leaving the EU, and it was advisory anyway
In reacting with fear to implied threat of Public unrest, and iplementing the result they will simply create more.
And frankly they cannot be trusted anyway.
Look at the lies, errors, misjudgements and incompetence both major parties have shown over many years.
It's no good looking to them to set an example; they already have and it's a bad one.
This error will continue till the Public mood changes sufficiently to make Parliament react.
Blaming Parliament is simply Blaming the Monkey(Parliament) when the Organ Grinder (Public) Complains in turning the handle he plays the wrong tune.

The Monkey hasn't either the Guts or the Brains to change it.
Responsibility lies with the Voters
This is an utterly unnecessary nightmare the Brexit vote set in motion, by now the public should have seen that was the case, but it hasn't has it?
But it will, oh yes, indeed it will.

Says the man with no better answer than to vote for a party that couldn't form a government. Very clever waste of a vote.

I hope its a coincidence the two most opinionated individuals I,ve had displeasure to communicate with both post on here..(Tom and OG if you didn't guess)

 

[oldgroaner]

Says the man with no better answer than to vote for a party that couldn't form a government. Very clever waste of a vote.

I gave you a better answer, if I was young enough I would take it myself.
We all know no vote in this election is going to do any good, or do you have a better idea?

 

[Danidl]

Sorry No: there is no evading personal responsibility in this, the house of commons are simply going along with the Public Mood.
Before the referendum both parties were against leaving the EU, and it was advisory anyway
In reacting with fear to implied threat of Public unrest, and iplementing the result they will simply create more.
And frankly they cannot be trusted anyway.
Look at the lies, errors, misjudgements and incompetence both major parties have shown over many years.
It's no good looking to them to set an example; they already have and it's a bad one.
This error will continue till the Public mood changes sufficiently to make Parliament react.
Blaming Parliament is simply Blaming the Monkey(Parliament) when the Organ Grinder (Public) Complains in turning the handle he plays the wrong tune.

The Monkey hasn't either the Guts or the Brains to change it.
Responsibility lies with the Voters
This is an utterly unnecessary nightmare the Brexit vote set in motion, by now the public should have seen that was the case, but it hasn't has it?
But it will, oh yes, indeed it will.

.. sorry but I again must disagree. Is this not a case of " all out of step except my Johnny".
If you accept democratic principles, then you must accept the results, however unpalatable. Democracy has a number of checks and balances, .. the courts to prevent mob rule by being independent arbitrators of existing law, the police to ensure compliance with the rule of law, the parliament to create the rule of law and to hold the executive to account. The executive government (ministers) to suggest policy and to run the civil service.
It was / is the failure of parliament in its role of defender of the common good which is most at fault in my opinion. They had a long time to reflect on the likely outcomes before making their determination.

I am not absolving the general public of their responsibility to be informed, but the major failing remains that of the elected representatives, who had by their oaths of office the greater responsibility. Carrying out your analogy, which I dislike, the monkeys were going to get the same amount of nuts irrespective of which way they voted, as the referendum was ambiguous with such a small margin.