Brexit, for once some facts.

[flecc]

Remember the Olympics? Didn't we all think that would be an unmitigated disaster? How did that turn out? This is a great country.

You've really got that wrong, the country wasn't involved in this city games institution.

It was the London Olympics, organised by London, the only truly successful part of the UK which supports the rest. And we voted to remain in the EU because we do know what we are doing.
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[OxygenJames]

When we leave the EU I am now convinced that we are about to enter a land of milk and honey,just like the jihadist life after death is prosperous and full of virgins.
But just in the very unlikely event that we end up poor ,how are we going to pay for the NHS,Social Care,Benefits,doing up Rees-Moggs wife's house,HS2 etc etc.....
Remember we are the land for everyone so....
We cannot put up taxes....we tried that with NIC.
More austerity....Doris from Clacton and Fred from Huddersfield won't like that.
Expand the city of London....forgot they all left in the great Brexit exodus
Put up vat....with the 100% price hikes in 2017-19 not really an option.
Borrow more....yes that's the answer,we only owe 1.7 trillion,but interest rates could be much higher.
Wouldn't want to be Hammond in 2019.
KudosDave

So negative. So pessimistic. Be of good cheer my friend. There is no cliff. We are not going to fall off anything. Hold on tightly to your balls, look deeply into the eyes of your God and praise our collective ability to pull this thing off. And remember - there's pretty much nothing you personally can do about it either way - so there's always going to be somebody else to blame if it all goes spectacularly wrong.

 

[flecc]

look deeply into the eyes of your God

You posted that on thread page 666, which is said to be the mark of the Devil.
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[Danidl]

Right. The 'other place's days really are numbered. Though at least they have no power really over us - unlike that bunch of unelected knobs at the EU. Are we really leaving? Somebody pinch me and tell me its not a dream. Happy days.

I am not going to discuss your house of lords, that is a local UK situation, but I am going to refer to the reference made to "unelected..... in the EU"

... Who are these " unelected" . All the members of the European parliament were elected by direct elections in their respective countries. All the members of the council were selected by their respective national governments in exactly the same way as say a prime minister is selected. All the governments in European countries are universal franchise democracies.

As a citizen of Europe are free to object to their policies and politics, but you are not entitled to tell untruths and claiming that these people are unelected is an untruth.Please withdraw it.

Just as national governments have a permanent civil service, where admission is by open competition, so too has the EU, and it also has open competition, regularly advertised in national papers. These people are not elected but then neither are any of the civil servants in the UK or elsewhere. They like national government civil servants are under the control of the EU council and the EU parliament

 

[flecc]

I am not going to discuss your house of lords, that is a local UK situation, but I am going to refer to the reference made to "unelected..... in the EU"

Although you haven't discussed it, it's worth observing that the House of Lords is far more democratic than is generally realised.

Of some 800 members, only 100 are hereditary. The great majority are ex MPs and ex cabinet ministers who have been nominated into the Lords in recognition of their long parliamentary service.

It follows that each of them has been democratically elected to power by the people on many occasions.
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[tillson]

Oh excellent. So you're allowed to say '****'? I thought it was banned due to the sensitivity of some of the children here.

Ssshhhhh. Don't wake them up, I don't think they've noticed.

 

[tillson]

Right. Well there you have it. You have a low opinion of this country. So many wonderful people living here. And you put them down with that statement. And I am SO glad you lost the vote. Now you may see some of the people who do not have a low opinion - come to the fore. And maybe - in time - your opinion will change.

Remember the Olympics? Didn't we all think that would be an unmitigated disaster? How did that turn out? This is a great country. Some great people - amazing history - beautiful countryside - able to not take itself seriously (for those brought up on Monty Python etc) - loads of jobs (I see this morning in the news unemployment dropped again to 4.7%) - a great capital city - amazing walks - public transport.

But. Not everybody agrees right? Ain't that the truth.

I think the people who's business model is essentially to buy a container load of shite from China for $1000 and flog it for $2000 tend to be anti-BREXIT. I'm not naming names, just sayin'.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Although you haven't discussed it, it's worth observing that the House of Lords is far more democratic than is generally realised.

Of some 800 members, only 100 are hereditary. The great majority are ex MPs and ex cabinet ministers who have been nominated into the Lords in recognition of their long parliamentary service.

It follows that each of them has been democratically elected to power by the people on many occasions.
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Makes them sound like an elite who may know what they are saying. Not very fashionable at the moment in world politics.

 

[tillson]

When we leave the EU I am now convinced that we are about to enter a land of milk and honey,just like the jihadist life after death is prosperous and full of virgins.
KudosDave

Good man. One by one, they are all coming around to the idea.

 

[tillson]

The annual holiday in Spain will be unaffordable.

Boo Hoo

 

[Woosh]

We are a small island and we think we're special

Yes, I think we still are.

But brexit's success depends so very much on having all of UK and EU working hard together.
That's why I think Mrs May undiplomatic approach is counter-productive and perhaps the threat of indyref2 will concentrate minds.

 

[gray198]

Brilliantly put... She's not got an easy job, mixing these two aims.

I wonder if she'll go for a 'soft' indy or a hard one

 

[anotherkiwi]

Yes, I think we still are.

I was thinking more along the lines of "special, not all there..." So yes! We do tend to think you are

 

[Jimod]

I wonder if she'll go for a 'soft' indy or a hard one

We're going for a soft Indy, in recognition of our long time in a union with the people in England. How this is going to work is all worked out. When we leave the UK we're going to join the EU. the EU will have certain rules for us.

One of these will be which side of the road to drive on. We've decided that we will go for the soft option. We'll stick to the left so that the border crossings with England won't be a problem, however, to make us more EU friendly we'll allow Lorry drivers from the EU countries to drive on the right when they come here. People coming on holiday from the Eu will be allowed to drive on the right if in their own cars but MUST drive on the left if they hire a vehicle here.

The debate about currency is still going on but we've pretty much decided to wait and see which currency is worth the most when the time comes.

Now, this may sound confusing to our Southern shandy drinking friends but it's no less confusing than the amount of referendums we're having.

 

[Kudoscycles]

This is partly why I think you're basically anti-trade - its your pessimism. You have such a low opinion of this country. Not good for trade.

No,I am not anti trade but I just don't see how breaking away from our biggest trading partners is pro trade. I don't accept that the EU is shackling us from trading with the world,in the EU we trade with 27 countries and because of the EU we have trade arrangements with another 52...,it is going to take us ages to get trade deals with all those.
I don't know of any nation that I can't currently trade with,well certainly not one that I want to trade with. The idea that post Brexit we can trade with China,USA,India is a delusion,these countries are capable of making pretty much everything we can sell,free trade deal with China would write off what is left of our tiny manufacturing industry,but what can we sell them?
I am not a pessimist,I am currently involved in the biggest expansion of my auto parts business but those parts will largely manufactured in China,the U.K. no longer has the manufacturing capacity (for example,we no longer have any drop forging industry in the UK).
If you think Brexit is a good idea you must have some idea of where we can and how trade in new directions?
KudosDave

 

[flecc]

One of these will be which side of the road to drive on. We've decided that we will go for the soft option. We'll stick to the left so that the border crossings with England won't be a problem, however, to make us more EU friendly we'll allow Lorry drivers from the EU countries to drive on the right when they come here. People coming on holiday from the Eu will be allowed to drive on the right if in their own cars but MUST drive on the left if they hire a vehicle here.

That's what I like to see, the Chinese solution. At one time their law was drive on the left, but that was later changed to drive on the right. In practice Chinese drivers drive in the middle, trying, not always successfully, to avoid colliding with each other.

In a long and very detailed article giving advice on driving in China, this is the only advice on where to be on the road:

"When possible, drive near the middle-right of the road as drain covers are usually stolen."

You may be riding one of their remodelled drain covers!
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[Kudoscycles]

Right. Well there you have it. You have a low opinion of this country. So many wonderful people living here. And you put them down with that statement. And I am SO glad you lost the vote. Now you may see some of the people who do not have a low opinion - come to the fore. And maybe - in time - your opinion will change.

Remember the Olympics? Didn't we all think that would be an unmitigated disaster? How did that turn out? This is a great country. Some great people - amazing history - beautiful countryside - able to not take itself seriously (for those brought up on Monty Python etc) - loads of jobs (I see this morning in the news unemployment dropped again to 4.7%) - a great capital city - amazing walks - public transport.

But. Not everybody agrees right? Ain't that the truth.

I think you are confusing what we remainers think about the UK and what we think about Brexit. I love our country,I particularly love London.
We have always been a great trading nation and I want us to stay a great trading nation.
Our mix of peoples is so varied and we have always been a country that welcomes other races that want to come to our country.
It seems to me that Brexit has to some extent been caused because our governments have not trained everyone to a level that is needed in our techie age,and some Brits just don't want to do hard manual work anymore,those extremes are currently filled by immigrants,what is wrong with that?
KudosDave

 

[Woosh]

It seems to me that Brexit has to some extent been caused because our governments have not trained everyone to a level that is needed in our techie age,and some Brits just don't want to do hard manual work anymore,those extremes are currently filled by immigrants,what is wrong with that?

I don't know if you watched the news on BBC1 at lunch time. They had a story about a Czech lorry driver moving stuff for Ikea in Dortmund. He got paid £450 a month, Czech wages, but works only for Ikea in Dortmund. The lame excuse is a Czech company supplying the drivers to Ikea. That shows how EU companies exploit EU laws.
This is an example of how people got so fed up and voted for brexit.

 

[flecc]

I don't know if you watched the news on BBC1 at lunch time. They had a story about a Czech lorry driver moving stuff for Ikea in Dortmund.

Must have been the BBC's Truck Driver Day.

I listened to the BBC Radio 4 lunch time news and their story on British drivers exploited by German cut-throat spiv companies Aldi and Lidl.

It seems that where the drivers are unloaded by specialised store staff in our supermarkets, Aldi and Lidl demand drivers unload their own trucks and store away the stuff in their buildings. They get just ten minutes training on the fork lift trucks etc to do that, in my experienced view that's irresponsibly dangerous.
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[Kudoscycles]

I think the people who's business model is essentially to buy a container load of shite from China for $1000 and flog it for $2000 tend to be anti-BREXIT. I'm not naming names, just sayin'.

Go back 15 years ago and I get your point but China has moved on,market stall rubbish is still available from China,most of it comes out of Yuwi.
Very soon Mc Donnell Douglas,General Electric(Engines) and Shanghai Aircraft Co will produce a jet commercial plane to compete with Airbus and Boeing.
Wanxiang of Hangzhou now control 70% of the worlds bearing industry,they now supply the front corner of most of the worlds prestigious vehicles,annual revenue 52 billion US dollars.
They seem to have access to finance to buy 5 axis and 7 axis machining centres,allowing some very close tolerance and high quality work,in the last 5 years I am particularly pleased with the quality of work coming out from China.
They have managed to build over 6000 miles of high speed trains with some amazing stations whilst we have been arguing over 100 miles....will the Chinese build HS2,they must be the world leader in high speed train technology?
I assume you haven't visited China recently,it would open your eyes to what we are up against on the world market.
KudosDave