Ha! Very funny. You are SUCH a fibber Dave! You're not the slightest bit interested in what that man has to say. Go on. Admit it. You'll feel better. Really. You will.
Brexit, for once some facts.
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Old Groaner has Space Nazis hovering over his house? I wish somebody woulda told me that earlier. Everything is starting to make sense now.
No I am genuinely interested in the contra view of Brexit,this forum is full of us Remoaners,nice to hear what pros we can look forward to.... I was annoyed that Hammond announced he is putting £60 billion away to support Brexit but struggled to come up with £2 billion ,over 3 years,for social care....strange priorities.
I wonder how many changed camps today after Hammond broke his own manifesto and increased NIC's,a government not to be trusted.
KudosDave
In case anyone is wondering what this person is on about, the comment is intended to be both sarcastic and humorous.
But then it's probably the best he can do.
Was it him who announced £60bn fighting fund? I don't think he has the money. The BoE has an asset purchase program to print money. BoE has printed half a trillion so far. It can print some more but really, Hammond does not have the money he hasn't yet borrowed.
It may be a propaganda job from tory HQ.
Since they didn't have a plan, did they, quite obviously it has happened in the manner you have just suggested, so glad you agree!
By the way you really are losing it when you start babbling
" I think those Space Nazis have been orbiting over your house again"
Did you make that up all on your own?
Very amusing!
This gets incrementally more interesting with every post. So let us recap and reappraise the situation in the world according to oldgroaner:If there was an "opportunity" for Brexit before the referendum that leaves you with the obvious conclusions
The Torys must have been too thick to see it, before the Referendum which leads on to a further logical conclusion
They are just as thick in imagining that an opportunity is afforded by Brexit, surely after the Referendum
Let's use our imagination and postulate they are not entirely stupid
The logical answer is that they didn't think the Public were gullible enough to fall for being swindled using Brexit as an excuse, before the Referndum ,but have been encouraged because enough people were conned into voting for it to take them to the cleaners as they have not merely "asked for it" but demanded it.
You are about to be Rogered with a Rag Man's Rusty Trumpet, as you seem so determined to be!
Close your eyes and spout patriotic nonsense
1) The Tory party harbour a fascist state ambition. One where the working population can be exploited by tyrannical mill owner type characters.
2) The Tory party view leaving the EU as an essential element in implementing (1).
3) The majority of the Tory party overtly opposed leaving the EU including, arguably their most senior figures at the time, the Prime Minister, the Chancellor and the Home Secretary (Prime Minister in waiting). The then Prime Minister even goes as far as appearing on television and acts out a script which gives the audience the impression that he is opposed to leaving the EU. But all the time, oldgroaner and old tom know he is lying, and secretly wants the UK to leave, because its all part of a bigger picture, a sinister fascist plot.
4) (3) is actually a very clever double bluff calculated to deceive the public into voting for BREXIT.
5) The public fall for the double bluff and instigate a set of events which will in all likelihood, lead to the UK leaving the EU.
6) The Prime Minister and Chancellor resign as part of a pre-planned and carefully choreographed act which had been conceived months, maybe years in advance.
7) The Prime Minister is replaced by another fascist "sleeper" (Mrs May) who has always been outwardly lukewarm about BREXIT. Again, this fascist sleeper has been dormant within the party and awaiting activation by the plot's architects.
I think the above is a pretty accurate account of oldgroaner's and old tom's beliefs.
My theory is that the Tory's, Labour and certainly the Lib Dems have never been keen on BREXIT and probably oppose it. UKIP painted Cameron into a corner and he unwisely and against his will called for a referendum. He lost and his position became impossible, so he had no choice but to go.
Mrs May is also more pro remain than leave, but had carefully hedged her bets, and seized the moment. She is not motivated by BREXIT, but the position of Prime Minister is her driver and this is what incentivises her to press on. May believes that no BREXIT = no job as Prime Minister. I think this is pretty close to the truth.
The only plot is the one which oldgraoner and old tom have sadly lost.
Regardless of this, what old groaner has actually illustrated is that he is guilty of a phenomenon known as screwed (thank you D8ve!) up thinking. A real barmpot, a fruit loaf, a bell end, a knob jockey and other such descriptions.
I am so pleased that my views oppose those of old groaners because it would appall me to think that I share the same values, fascist conspiracy theories and logic. Our thoughts do overlap in certain areas, mainly employment rights, but I can never subscribe to the idiotic fascist crap that I have highlighted above.
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Oh, quelle surprise 'tillson'! Your juvenile retort enveloped in mock patriotism speaks volumes about your sociopathic tendencies.
Your knowledge of British history is clearly tainted but as you are stupid enough to believe the claptrap promulgated by liars, misogynists, financial cheats as well as being an apologist for murderous fascist scum, that comes as no surprise to me.
Tom[/QUOTE]
It's a good job that you are a confused & harmless old fool. If you were capable of influence, your thoughts could be quite dangerous to the public at large.
My advice to you is to settle down, have your Horlicks and suck on a Werther's Original. You might even catch Last of the Summer Wine on UK Gold if you are lucky. It will settle you down.
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Are you one of those people who attack Mosques as well? Advocating the destruction of places of worship / religious buildings all sounds a bit unsavoury to me. I'm please that you aren't my neighbour. You should join the EDL, they get up to that sort of thing.
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Aren't the EDL part of UKIP,who are now part of the Tory party....quite incestuous really.Are you one of those people who attack Mosques as well? Advocating the destruction of places of worship / religious buildings all sounds a bit unsavoury to me. I'm please that you aren't my neighbour. You should join the EDL, they get up to that sort of thing.
How you getting on with telling us about the pros of Brexit? As Brexit voters go you seem intellectually well equipped to advise.
Didn't Oliver Cromwell (aka Nigel Farage) want to sack the cathedral,history a bit murky of that period.
One good thing in the budget is spending money on grammar schools....good thing grammar schools,middle class version of the 'ol school tie'.
Hammond is reverting to Tory,loads of money for corporation tax reductions ,but no money for social care.....I hope man from Huddersfield is pleased the way Brexit is going.
KudosDave
I don't know about that. I haven't seen any evidence to support such a notion.
A futile exercise with an audience of defeatists.
How good, or the Pros of BREXIT will depend on how good the exit deal is. For example, if we could freely choose which elements of the EU we wanted to dispense with (membership contributions and free movement for example) but retain tariff free access to the single market, that would be a good deal and have many pros. The problem is we, the public, don't know what we are likely to get. oldgroaner and old tom who despise and have no belief in their country will tell you we are a worthless nation, fit only to beg for crumbs in exchange for licking the boots of the EU leaders.
I like to think we are better than that. I don't think we will achieve what I have said above, but I believe the final deal will be better for the country in the long term than what we have now.
So without knowing what the deal is, it isn't possible to say what the pros are or will be. At this stage it is aspirational and that is linked to the individual's optimism. oldgraoner and old tom, will be along after reading this to tell us that the UK is full of worthless fascist scum and that any hope of a deal is scuppered before we even start. However, they are tragic old farts and I like to think that I posses a more positive outlook. But then they confuse optimism with delusion and so it goes on. This is the difficulty that BREXIT has with the audience on this thread.
I never knew Nigel Farage was that old. Hasn't he aged remarkably well?
This is excellent news and hopefully the start of great reform of our education system. These schools give pupils who are prepared to work a real chance to escape from the dross who inevitably drag them down to their level and who also hinder the progress of pupils with a strong work ethic.
No doubt the Labour MPs who pay for their children to be privately educated will be violently opposed to the news though.
We have a Grammar School close by to where I live and I can give you an example of how these marvellous institutions work. I am a member of a local triathlon club and there are two young women, twins, who are also members. They are from a very run down area consisting mainly of social housing and their parents both work in low paid jobs. Both girls won scholarships to the Grammar School. One went to Birmingham University and is now a Doctor and the other went to Cambridge and works for a pharmaceutical company. Both are very competitive, hardworking and capable. If it had not been for that Grammar School, given their background, they would never have achieved what they have today. It is nothing to do with privilege or money. It is everything to do with helping ones self and being prepared to put the work and the effort in. This notion of "disadvantaged" is just shorthand for lazy, idle gits who want a Labour MP to tip a flatbed lorry load of money on their drive in exchange for doing FA.
Bring on the Grammar School, I am liking the way this government is heading.
£3 billion for social care?
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I wonder how I am supposed to react to such an unwarranted attack?
perhaps remind you that insults are really not going to help win the argument.
The rest of your post is from your imagination, so why attribute it so someone else?
In future please read my posts rather than substitute your own and claim otherwise.
i realise it must be frustrating when people keep asking you to produce some facts pro Brexit, but tantrums that would do no credit to a ten year old are not the answer.
Grow up
What's this doing in the Express?
BREXIT BLOW: Net migration will be 'almost DOUBLE the Government’s target by 2020'
THERESA May’s plan to reduce UK net migration to the “tens of thousands” has been dealt a fresh blow after the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) suggested figures will be running at almost double the Government’s target by 2020.
BREXIT BLOW: Net migration will be 'almost DOUBLE the Government’s target by 2020'
THERESA May’s plan to reduce UK net migration to the “tens of thousands” has been dealt a fresh blow after the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) suggested figures will be running at almost double the Government’s target by 2020.
I believe that you were saying that the Conservative party have been pro-BREXIT all along, but prior to the referendum didn't believe that they could pull it off.
I don't agree with that. I am certain that in the main, they were anti-BREXIT and the party's official line was one of remaining within the EU. This is what makes the idea of a fascist plot so crazy.
Regarding the pros of BREXIT, I have answered that in a reply to Kudos. In a nutshell, the pros of BREXIT will be determined by the final deal and since the public don't know what the final deal will be, it isn't possible to accurately state the benefits. This means that the individual has to make an assessment of how much they think the UK's membership is worth to the EU, as this will be a big factor governing the outcome and hence the pros of BREXIT. So I don't know, I can't accurately answer for the reasons stated. Personally, I think the UK is of value to the EU and the exit terms will be better for the UK in the long term. I realise that you have no faith in the UK and consider the population to be worthless inward looking fascists, so expect the deal to be poor. I have more faith in the country and expect good exit terms. That's why I support BREXIT.
I agree with you tilson (careful, that is more than three times now!) that the Conservative party was pro-EU for the simple reason that it is closest to big business and for big business the EU is a good thing.
The UK's membership could have had value for the EU. But a lot of your MEPs spent most of their time trying to break it rather than defend their electors interests. You aren't alone, 24 of Frances MEPs (at least) are worthless hangers on doing the same thing. And your governments have been pushing agendas which seem to be designed more to hamper the EU, put it off the rails than to make it grow in the right direction. The UK maybe could have been a good partner but your government doesn't seem to have any vision other than short term make a quick buck politics.
I don't see any need for a "deal", you want out, you are out. There are lots of loose ends to be tied up and some of those may require money to change hands to pay for the cost of you leaving which must be supported by you who desire to leave not those who are staying.
There are a list of countries looking for deals with the EU. As you are leaving I only think it fair that you join the back of the queue, that is the English way isn't it?
So here's a view point from someone with a lot more knowledge then me.
Is this what you voted for Tillson? Or do you think this outlook is far fetched?
Is this what you voted for Tillson? Or do you think this outlook is far fetched?
yes, it is but will the EU risk to play straight into the hand of hard brexiters, cut their nose to spite their face?
I think the likely outcome is a reasonably good deal for both sides.
Where is the logic that the EU have something to loose coming from?
If we leave, the worse the deal the stronger the EU will be. If they give us a good deal, it'll weaken the EU.
Given the anti-EU elements in some other EU countries, the deal the UK gets cannot be seen to be good.
That would only attract more to departure, which the EU will not risk.
The signs are already there, first the disclosure that it could cost us as much as £60 billions to leave and now the EU claim for £1.5 billions in uncollected duties. They are making it look painful already, and there will be more like it to come.
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