Brexit, for once some facts.

[Woosh]

You're not considering the fact there are UK citizens claiming benefits in the EU.

No. I think the two issues are separate.
After brexit, economically inactive citizens residing in another country may have to leave because the host country may refuse to provide with assistance: housing, jobs, disability benefits.
There are about 30% of 3.5 millions EU citizens that are in this category.
I don't know how many of them receiving benefits. Also, many who have jobs may have only part time jobs. The rules of benefits to those with part time jobs may change after brexit.
I guess that life will be much tougher for those with part time jobs or no jobs. Some will want to leave the UK for Germany or home. That will reduce the pressure on housing and other public services.

 

[Danidl]

There has been a large growth in employment in Poland, the Czech republic, Hungary, Bulgaria and Romania since they joined the EU

There's been several elements in this. First is the setting up of Western European large manufacturing facilities in several of those countries. Initially that resulted in direct employment jobs, but has expanded into local parts supply companies being set up to supply the major facilities production.

Second is the move of a number of UK farmers selling up here and buying vast tracts of the cheap but high quality Romanian and Bulgarian flat lands and bringing large scale modern farming to there.

A third example is the number of our UK people moving to such as Bulgaria to take advantage of dirt cheap housing. This has brought an inflow of Western money, particularly pensions, stimulating existing and new local companies to suppy their needs. My sister is one of them, a very happy Bulgarian resident.
.

..... The purpose of my post was basically to allow others to amplify what was a very positive endorsement of EU policy.

 

[tillson]

...Of course you do. And remove all that bogus child safety legislation and secondary school time and you will create a larger pool of young willing labour , just the right size to go up chimneys , down mines , thin turnips etc

Whoa! Where did child safety legislation, secondary schools, chimneys, mines and turnips come from?

Have you been helping yourself to old tom's and old groaner's stash?

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

You missed the point, KTM.
We treat about 1 million economically inactive EU citizens at the moment very much like our own.
After brexit, not much will change for those with a job but a lot will for many among the 1 million without a job.

Ok, so what are you proposing for the couple from France, where the husband is a doctor and the wife stays home to look after the kids who are both school age. (massive generalisation for obvious purpose)

Are you going to send the "EU migrant not in work" home?

because there are stories with this exact case right across the UK right now and the 3 million are very worried.

 

[tillson]

However as said above... the fact you think leaving the EU will suddenly motivate this pool of labour to go into training to get the high paid jobs, or get dirty to do the low paid ones is what I'm struggling to comprehend.

As I said earlier, work needs to be much more attractive than benefits. If the attractiveness of benefits is reduced, work becomes more attractive.

 

[oldtom]

KTM
Have you checked with KTM / Cross Industries that your views are indicative / representative of the company you represent?
It is a public forum ??? Could be argued your opinions are alienating potential customers ? ( Vice versa they could agree and think its attracting them, but I wouldn't be impressed if I was Cross or owner of KTM) Not my business , only saying..

That matter is no business of any reader of these pages and is most certainly not anything an internet troll should be raising in a public forum.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

Ok, so what are you proposing for the couple from France, where the husband is a doctor and the wife stays home to look after the kids who are both school age. (massive generalisation for obvious purpose)

Are you going to send the "EU migrant not in work" home?

because there are stories with this exact case right across the UK right now and the 3 million are very worried.

Nobody is going anywhere. The costas and souther France would go bust in a week, house prices would plummet ( even further) if all the expats sold up and came home. Yes there might be more eu citizens in uk than vice versa but generally expats are a wealthy, high spending, house tax paying group. Those areas are already facing difficulty, ultimately the countries involved will reach agreement for both groups. There are villages in both France and Spain ( and no doubt elsewhere) that would become Ghost towns without Brits...
The current talk is just manouvering prior to agreements being reached. It was the eu that refused an agreement prior to invoking art 50...

 

[Kudoscycles]

No. I think the two issues are separate.
After brexit, economically inactive citizens residing in another country may have to leave because the host country may refuse to provide with assistance: housing, jobs, disability benefits.
There are about 30% of 3.5 millions EU citizens that are in this category.
I don't know how many of them receiving benefits. Also, many who have jobs may have only part time jobs. The rules of benefits to those with part time jobs may change after brexit.
I guess that life will be much tougher for those with part time jobs or no jobs. Some will want to leave the UK for Germany or home. That will reduce the pressure on housing and other public services.

Where do you get that 30% of 3.5 million from....all the Poles down in the south seem to be working. My plumber (english) is fed up with them because they work so hard,he admits they are good at their job.
KudosDave

 

[Zlatan]

That matter is no business of any reader of these pages and is most certainly not anything an internet troll should be raising in a public forum.

Tom

Yes I agree, KTM shouldn't be. Very understanding employees, and a brainwashed old fool should stop calling names.

 

[tillson]

That matter is no business of any reader of these pages and is most certainly not anything an internet troll should be raising in a public forum.

Tom

He has a point. Do the views being expressed represent the views of the KTM brand or are they the views of a single individual? What's wrong with that question?

 

[Kudoscycles]

As I said earlier, work needs to be much more attractive than benefits. If the attractiveness of benefits is reduced, work becomes more attractive.

Thats what Hammond is doing cutting benefits to force people back to work but I dont think this was what many intended when they ticked Leave on the voting form....the Leave vote didnt 'say ticking this box will force you to work harder'....Brexit probably doesn't look so attractive to those who thought Brexit would give them a better lifestyle without working for it.
Nobody from the Beeb ever seems to interview these people to ask whether Brexit is going the way they thought....after all they won didnt they???
KudosDave

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Nobody is going anywhere. The costas and souther France would go bust in a week, house prices would plummet ( even further) if all the expats sold up and came home. Yes there might be more eu citizens in uk than vice versa but generally expats are a wealthy, high spending, house tax paying group. Those areas are already facing difficulty, ultimately the countries involved will reach agreement for both groups. There are villages in both France and Spain ( and no doubt elsewhere) that would become Ghost towns without Brits...
The current talk is just manouvering prior to agreements being reached. It was the eu that refused an agreement prior to invoking art 50...

Zlatan, meet Woosh, because it was Woosh who was hoping Brexit would cause 1 million to loose benfits and leave, solvingt the housing crisis. Not me.

Brexit will cause a lot of them (about 1 million) to lose benefits and move out.
It may sound callous to many of us but brexit will reduce the housing crisis.

Also regarding the expat comments, I don't think I even need to comment on them do I. You know what I'll say I'm sure.

 

[flecc]

As I said earlier, work needs to be much more attractive than benefits. If the attractiveness of benefits is reduced, work becomes more attractive.

But we are in a trap in this respect. A benefit cannot fall below survival level, and most of our benefits are at that now, being far lower than in comparable EU countries.

The real problem is the very low level of low end job wages in this country, often barely at survival levels. Our governments have recognised this and have tried to force employers to pay more, with such as minimum wages for example. But unfortunately employers have continued to pay below those levels by using various devices.

What's needed is far harsher enforcement against those employers, but of course we won't get that. Why? Well, borrowing from Old Tom's hymn sheet, that would be hurting their pals wouldn't it.

There's no excuse for these low wages. An example to illustrate, we have some of the most expensive hotels and restaurants in the world, staffed by a high proportion of those employed on pittance and often illegal rates.
.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

He has a point. Do the views being expressed represent the views of the KTM brand or are they the views of a single individual? What's wrong with that question?

I don't have a clue about the views of KTM in Austria, well I do, but its not being discussed on here, because I'm not posting as them am I? This is clearly me commenting, under the name of KTM UK, which isn't even a company. We are FLi, and I own it, I don't put all posts to the office before I post them. But we will all be at the march on March 25th, so I think its universal opinion here that Brexit is bad for the UK.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

As I said earlier, work needs to be much more attractive than benefits. If the attractiveness of benefits is reduced, work becomes more attractive.

So we knock benefits on the head for anyone who can work, then?

Problem solved.

or we make companies pay a better wage?

Problems solved.

or a bit of both.

Explain to me why one or both of these isn't an option in the UK currently?

 

[flecc]

Explain to me why one or both of these isn't an option in the UK currently?

I've already done it for Tillson just above your post.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

He has a point. Do the views being expressed represent the views of the KTM brand or are they the views of a single individual? What's wrong with that question?

Come on guys,you know that Colin is expressing his own views and is entitled to do so,similarly I express my own views,the fact that I own the Kudos brand is not relevant.
At least we are both honest and declare our brand association.
I dont think Theresa May and Trump have yet killed off free speech but I am tempted to say she does exert some control,Trump would like to do so.
Dictators hate freedom of speech.
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

Thats what Hammond is doing cutting benefits to force people back to work but I dont think this was what many intended when they ticked Leave on the voting form....the Leave vote didnt 'say ticking this box will force you to work harder'....

It's not working harder, it's actually going to work.

I can't speak for what others intended, but BREXIT isn't going to be a free lunch, we are all going to have to work hard to make it work. That may come as an unpleasant surprise to some, but that's tough **. There may not be much alternative when the benefits start shrinking.

 

[tillson]

But we are in a trap in this respect. A benefit cannot fall below survival level, and most of our benefits are at that now, being far lower than in comparable EU countries.

The real problem is the very low level of low end job wages in this country, often barely at survival levels. Our governments have recognised this and have tried to force employers to pay more, with such as minimum wages for example. But unfortunately employers have continued to pay below those levels by using various devices.

What's needed is far harsher enforcement against those employers, but of course we won't get that. Why? Well, borrowing from Old Tom's hymn sheet, that would be hurting their pals wouldn't it.

There's no excuse for these low wages. An example to illustrate, we have some of the most expensive hotels and restaurants in the world, staffed by a high proportion of those employed on pittance and often illegal rates.
.

There is survival level and there is iPhone level, 56" flat screen level, every meal in Mc Donald's Level, 60 fags a day level, Alton towers Level etc. I think there is plenty of headroom between survival level where we are today.

 

[tillson]

So we knock benefits on the head for anyone who can work, then?

Problem solved.

or we make companies pay a better wage?

Problems solved.

or a bit of both.

Explain to me why one or both of these isn't an option in the UK currently?

They are options, we just haven't taken them, yet.