Brexit, for once some facts.

[Danidl]

... Well then those lawyers are delusional... Can they not also read?

I would fully agree with you that there will be confusion when a complex question is reduced to a yes no answer . Within the leave camp there is was a spectrum of opinion and beliefs and expectations, . There was presumably an expectation that those employed to do their thinking .. the MP s and civil servants would clear things up. It remains confusing why the question of why leave was never debated in your parliament.
Of the arguements you yourself have presented the only one with which I can understand, not necessarily agree with , is the " taking back control "one

 

[Woosh]

... Well then those lawyers are delusional... Can they not also read?

they are in it for fees, at least £1,000 an hour even for junior barristers.

 

[Kudoscycles]

possibly but irrelevant.



My last few posts addressed the effect that brexit and the likelihood that we will be out of the Single Market may have on small businesses. You tried to link it to snowbirds, OK. Let's discuss it. Before the UK even joined the EU, relationship with Europe was already good. Brits already lived there. There is no reason why that can't continue. They may need to apply for residency permits like in the old days but these permits are usually valid for 10 years. It's not a big issue.


You imagine that, not me.



That's your view. The brexit debate makes people see sense. It goes the same way for both groups of voters. I hope my last few posts have helped with putting the case for brexit from the point of view of millions of small businesses to remainers. Millions of SMEs have already had a hard time with ebay and amazon, brexit will help with reducing competition from the big companies (including ebay and amazon) that the EU has helped to prosper.

How will Brexit protect small companies from e-bay and Amazon. Don't forget that many of the fraudulent traders on those sites are small companies but trading out of Hong Kong.....Theresa May intends us to be an open trade country,that will only
help those Chinese companies.
Imagine if you sold every Woosh bike without charging vat and putting the vat in your pocket,that would allow you to sell at a much lower price and still keep good profits,customers don't mind ,they like the cheaper prices.
But HMRC would be soon investigating your business,but if you sold Woosh bikes out of Hong Kong via E-bay and distributed through a fulfilment warehouse in the UK (the warehouses often owned by E-bay or Amazon),you would have a dodgy vat number and a name 'Jacky Chan' trading out of a nondescript office in a tenament building in Shenzhen,HMRC will ignore you because you are difficult to pin down.
I actually tried to find one of these traders in Ningbo,the building had been pulled down!
This is not small business,I had a plier set that sold for £29.00,a Chinese trader sold it for £24.50,delivered free.....I sold maybe 5 per month,the Chinese trader sold 4,400 in a year. As an experiment I sold it for £21.50 delivered free,actually cost price,we sold loads.....after a few days the Chinese guy came down to £19.80,he can still make a profit at that price but defraud the vat. The kings of this business were Babz media,they got a revenue up to £19million,probably got too big,they were fined for not paying battery disposal costs and correct postal charges....overnight they disappeared,suspect sunning themselves in the Cayman Islands,HMRC got nowhere near them.
I know of many small UK companies who have given up on trading on e-bay because you cannot make a profit unless you defraud the vat man.
Shame,because it's a great way of fledgling UK companies to get going without big capital cost.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

I think Mrs May plans to trigger A50 before the French presidential election. Corbyn, on the other hand, wants it triggered as soon as possible. He said as much on June 24th. From that perspective, Blair seems a threat to Corbyn.
Boris is Boris, he skims on facts and usually uses humour for personality kills. The UK is still split in the middle, if there was another referendum, England would still vote for brexit, the rest may now want to remain. Chaos will still reign whichever way the net result is. If there should be another referendum, it would be much more meaningful to do that in two years when people know all the facts.

... That might be logical, .Except that the article 50 is a one shot event.
My understanding is that the desire to speed up the process is that the exit rules change and make exiting more difficult.

 

[Kudoscycles]

I haven't identified any posts here which were supportive of Mr Blair as a person or for his role in supporting the USA middle East misadventures. Quite the contrary. But it cannot be denied that he is an orator.

I agree I cannot stand Tony Blair but Theresa May and Jeremy Corbyn have killed off very effectively any anti Brexit discussions,there is nobody speaking for the Remain side or the anti hard Brexit side,we all seem to have accepted the hard Brexit that May is taking us.
I like Keir Starmer and Harriet Harmer,I can see a new centre left party encompassing most of the Labour MP's ,the rebel Remain Tories and the SNP,without Blairs bad baggage he would have been a strong leader of such a party,probably best kept in the back room.
Imagine if the referendum had gone the other way you would have been bored stiff of Farage pushing for another vote,Farage I also cannot stand.
In fact when I think about it I am not impressed by any of this government and few in the Labour Party,we seem to have a batch of very poor quality politicians just at a time when we need good ones.
Theresa May's domestic violence project is her answer to the criticism that this government are only interested in Brexit,I don't think she is sincere about it.

 

[Kudoscycles]

We are good in the UK coming up with innovative products. The problem is you can only last and prosper properly after reaching a certain size, like Brompton. From zero to 20m a year turnover, you need protection. My contention is you are more likely to be protected and helped by your own government purchases after brexit than before.
I have had a project of making e-bikes for rental for the last couple of years. I had high hopes until I saw whom I would be against when I received the pre-tender document from Haringey council.

Brompton is a bad choice,if May has her way and we are a free trade country with China,the 48% anti dumping duty on bikes would disappear and Brompton would have very strong competition against the likes of Dahon. I just don't see how Brexit protects government purchases unless we have a Trump style trade fortress,which May says she is against.
These anti dumping duties,loved by Germany to protect their industries,is going to be a big problem to Ireland v Northern Ireland. With an open border you would be able to buy a bike so much cheaper in the north and can you imagine that there would not be smuggling across the border. If Scotland becomes independent and stays in the EU then the same problem would exist between England and Scotland. Dover would be a good place to start a bike shop bringing in Chinese bikes.....Kudos is close to Dover,hehe !!!
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

a lot of that money is spent on keeping refugees in tent cities.

On the wrong side of the channel...

 

[Kudoscycles]

I think Mrs May plans to trigger A50 before the French presidential election. Corbyn, on the other hand, wants it triggered as soon as possible. He said as much on June 24th. From that perspective, Blair seems a threat to Corbyn.
Boris is Boris, he skims on facts and usually uses humour for personality kills. The UK is still split in the middle, if there was another referendum, England would still vote for brexit, the rest may now want to remain. Chaos will still reign whichever way the net result is. If there should be another referendum, it would be much more meaningful to do that in two years when people know all the facts.

The polls suggest that a second referendum would vote Remain....I know many who voted for the £11 million down the side of Boris's bus that he promised would go to the NHS.
Now they realise that Boris lied about that ,they would vote Remain.
We would have a lot of young people over 18,I think young people may be more reliable voters now they know what Brexit means,and we really should let the expats living abroad have a vote.
Many oldies,who are more reliable voters,have died in the interim.
There are also many who now realise that Brexit could be bad for their jobs and it looks like they are going to be poorer,they didn't realise that when they voted.
Why should any Remainer now vote to Leave.?
KudosDave
Ps.....just heard the news that 4500 Luton Vauxhall workers and 2500 Liverpool Vauxhall workers will now be regretting that they voted Leave,Theresa May will have to get some Nissan candy out,hehe

 

[oldgroaner]

Amazes me that remainers don't see Tony Blair for what he is

Even more amazing is that you attempt to pass this idiotic assertion that you have made as being even remotely related to the truth.
Why do you lie lie this?

 

[shemozzle999]

... That might be logical, .Except that the article 50 is a one shot event.
My understanding is that the desire to speed up the process is that the exit rules change and make exiting more difficult.

Current rules:

The Council decides to conclude the agreement with a
'super qualified majority', without the participation of the state concerned.
The qualified majority is defined in this case as at least 72% of the members of the Council, comprising at least 65% of the population of the Member States (without the withdrawing state) (Article 238(3)b TFEU).

 

[oldtom]

Here are two memories of a left-wing politician sadly no longer with us:





Tom

 

[flecc]

So basically the money we borrow to send to these poor countries does nothing for the people it's supposed to help. Surely a better way could be found. Can we afford this money when under such pressure in this country??

Yes, it's a situation well understood by both sides. Bribery to get business is illegal, and when discovered costs the guilty party, as Rolls Royce has now found out with a £650 millions fine. But the loophole has long been foreign aid, given on hidden understandings about where the money is spent, with those co-operating rewarded with their cut.

So of course much of the money comes back home as payments for our exports, and our true outlay on "aid" is much smaller. No-one is going to change this system which works so well for many "aid" giving countries, keeping friends onside and ensuring much of the money comes back home anyway.

We do it with all the countries we give to. The American do it, for example huge sums for rebuilding Iraq after they'd destroyed it, but the rebuilding contracts awarded to US firms. The Chinese do a variant in African countries, in return getting Africa's mineral resources at especially low prices.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Watching Sky......I have just learnt that I am a European Democrat.
KudosDave

 

[oldtom]

Or stop sending 14billion abroad in foreign aid!!!

I have no idea what the figure is these days but I shall accept that you have found this number from a respectable source 'gray198'. Perhaps unusually for me, I agree with you entirely that the foreign aid supplied by the UK government from tax receipts is grossly more than necessary to reflect the fact that we care about places and peoples elsewhere on the planet.

When we were a wealthy, productive nation it may have been the thing to do, particularly as we were then also a highly respected and generous nation. Sadly, that is no longer the case and I take the view that charity begins at home. Ergo, let's get our own house in order and sort the NHS, the potholes and all the infrastructure that has been neglected for years.

Tom

 

[Danidl]

Current rules:

The Council decides to conclude the agreement with a
'super qualified majority', without the participation of the state concerned.
The qualified majority is defined in this case as at least 72% of the members of the Council, comprising at least 65% of the population of the Member States (without the withdrawing state) (Article 238(3)b TFEU).

These rule changes affect applications made after 31st march 2017, so the status of an article 50 application post march is different.

 

[Kudoscycles]

These rule changes affect applications made after 31st march 2017, so the status of an article 50 application post march is different.

The Lords wouldn't get mischievous and extend the amendments to delay it after March 31,would they?
That would upset the Brexiters,that's treason isn't it.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

The Lords wouldn't get mischievous and extend the amendments to delay it after March 31,would they?
That would upset the Brexiters,that's treason isn't it.
KudosDave

... One can live in hope

 

[Woosh]

The Lords wouldn't get mischievous and extend the amendments to delay it after March 31,would they?
That would upset the Brexiters,that's treason isn't it.
KudosDave

They don't even have to be mischievous.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/theresa-may-must-get-second-brexit-act-through-parliament-after-eu-negotiations-lawyers-conclude-a7586506.html

“The Opinion adds that the UK’s constitutional arrangements for Article 50 purposes mean that notification will effectively be conditional on Parliament subsequently authorising the UK’s exit from the EU and that, under EU law, there are very strong arguments that, if Parliament decided to reject the available terms of withdrawal two years from now, the notification could be unilaterally revoked by the UK.”

 

[Zlatan]

I think you mean he shouts 'Remain' and gets support. I am no lover of Tony Blair but he seems to be the only articulate person who is speaking for the Remainers. I thought Boris was pathetic suggesting to turn Blair off the TV,suggesting that he is frightened that Blair may be listened to by Leavers who are changing their minds.
This government and all Leavers are frightened that Brexit may be reversed when it's true cost starts to become apparent. But Leavers don't discuss the merits of Brexit they resort to shouting down anyone who disagrees with the direction we are heading,they want it concluded as quick as possible just in case too many start questioning the whole idea. Tony Blair is dangerous to Leavers,his speech was well written and delivered,it was a breath of fresh air against the Leave arguments,that have no traction to my eyes.....when a Leaver tells me what we are going to achieve post Brexit then I will listen and consider but that never happens.
Theresa May tells us what the mechanism is,but never explains the rewards.
Tony Blair,don't shoot the messenger,he is delivering an important message that we should all consider even if we disagree with him.
KudosDave

I think you are wrong with that ( leavers frightened decision will be reversed)
Firstly , I don't think it will be reversed. All these folk changing minds are either appeasement for pestering ( or is it festering) remainers..ie) folk say to polls one thing and in reality they think completely the opposite. ( as happened originally)

Secondly, speaking for leavers I know, and the ones commenting on here, when they dare, I think feeling is if parliament now has decision, as long as its debated properly with none of the BS ( from both sides) I,d stand be decision they arrive at democratically and support ot either way.

At moment with the likes of Blair ( who should be locked up and not given a bloody great soap box by media, especially BBC) and all the vociferous remainers going on and on and on it does give impression country has changed its mind, which it certainly had not.
As ffor KTM I think he,s prompting me to come back into business , might get in touch with KTM and suggest they might do better with an importer with rather more positive attitude and less time to say same things over and over and over again on here...for how many pages ?? For an audience of a dozen or so ??
Do you bike importers have so much time to waste ??

 

[Zlatan]

Even more amazing is that you attempt to pass this idiotic assertion that you have made as being even remotely related to the truth.
Why do you lie lie this?

I,m wrong about Tony Blair OG ? Or that he is championing remain ??? Where is the lie in that ??

Just ask yourself why ?
Either he sees profit and power in it ?
Or He,s pushing support away from remain ?
I suspect the latter...somebody is paying him and the BBC are biased enough to give him a platform in hope remain gains support when infact he is the most despised ( what is he these days) politician probably in the world.( ok probably second)