Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

Ireland will not do well if brexit takes place. Any of the crumbs which might come from transfers of company offices will be small comfort

That's an interesting conflict of opinion with another Irish poster and I am unable to comment other that to say I sincerely hope Ireland does not suffer once again because of decisions taken in Westminster. As one with an Irish parent, I understand I qualify for an Irish passport and if that is correct, I shall certainly consider removing my domicile there should it appear more advantageous following a UK secession from the EU.

Tom

 

[Apprentice]

I'm genuinely pleased that Ireland stand to do well out of 'Brexit' if it happens. I wish that were the case for the UK too.

Tom

Ireland will not do well if brexit takes place. Any of the crumbs which might come from transfers of company offices will be small comfort

To be honest NoBody actually knows how its all going to go down ,but in my opinion i think ireland will do well from brexit.
I wish our spineless government would have jacked the euro back in 2008 but i believe were in a good position now

 

[Apprentice]

That's an interesting conflict of opinion with another Irish poster and I am unable to comment other that to say I sincerely hope Ireland does not suffer once again because of decisions taken in Westminster. As one with an Irish parent, I understand I qualify for an Irish passport and if that is correct, I shall certainly consider removing my domicile there should it appear more advantageous following a UK secession from the EU.

Tom

Your more than welcome Tom the more the merrier

 

[Danidl]

To be honest NoBody actually knows how its all going to go down ,but in my opinion i think ireland will do well from brexit.
I wish our spineless government would have jacked the euro back in 2008 but i believe were in a good position now

Agreed.. nobody actually knows . However my opinion is that it will be bad for the UK and possibly as bad or worse for us.
I would disagree with you about remaining in the Euro post 2008. But I suspect we would share agreement regarding bank bailout and the treatment we got from the European central Bank. I also suspect we could agree on the NAMA and vulture funds situation. .. where I believe our government was spineless.

 

[Danidl]

Your more than welcome Tom the more the merrier

Likewise I understand that I would be eligible for a UK one on the basis my father and mother were born before the Treaty in 1922, however I will forgo this pleasure.

 

[Zlatan]

There are only 9 regions in England, so 4th isn't something to be too proud of either way.

Agreed but nobody was claiming to be proud. I was arguing against your conclusion for which a places position is irrelevant. What's important is the %age majority. My point still holds, in that my home town had a very high leave majority and has amongst highest percentage of immigrants, ethnic minority groups and people not born in uk.

 

[oldgroaner]

I have a terrible sense of foreboding about that and it's a frightening prospect.

Tom

I have been feeling that way for a long time, but no one seems concerned.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Agreed but nobody was claiming to be proud. I was arguing against your conclusion for which a places position is irrelevant. What's important is the %age majority. My point still holds, in that my home town had a very high leave majority and has amongst highest percentage of immigrants, ethnic minority groups and people not born in uk.

its also a deprived area... seen as its shown that number of immigrants aren't the key factor that get people to vote leave... it looks like the main factors are economic prosperity and possibly levels of education.

Doncaster / S.Yorkshire generally doesn't have that high a % of immigrants, so I'm not sure where you've got the idea it has "amongst the highest", if you look at the information its about average.

You might just have the perception its high, I'm not sure where that is from.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2015/politics-blog/11698156/Mapped-How-high-is-immigration-in-your-area.html

So again its a UK caused problem... nothing to do with EU immigration.

My degree is in Geography and Statistics, so I love all this stuff

 

[oldtom]

The remark I made towards comments by 'Woosh' triggered something in my mind from earlier today. I read that today is 'Holocaust Memorial Day'. The 1940s Nazi-conducted holocaust of millions, particularly Jews, is one of the blackest periods in western civilisation's history.

At this present time, we are witnessing a re-birth of the same kind of political dimension which brought about the murder of millions of human beings on an industrial scale back in the 1940s. It is probably futile to expect the people who rally behind the modern-day fascists to believe that history could repeat itself but one must speak out rather than stay silent.

Those who promote the message of Farage, Johnson, & Co in the UK and Trump in the USA need to be aware that the holocaust didn't start in the gas chambers; it began with the rhetoric of hate.



Sadly, the victims of the 1940s holocaust are now themselves responsible for something not dissimilar in Palestine today.

Here in the UK, we see large groups of people behaving and using similar language as the Nazi extremists did in 1930s Germany and copied by Mosley's blackshirts in this country. Europe has been largely at peace since 1945, the longest period in known history, almost entirely due to what we now call the EU. There are at present, 28 sovereign nation states in that union but only one wishes to break away from it. Where this may lead is a worry to me, particularly as it seems to me that the major reason for this desire to break away is based on hate, rather than any economic or political matter.

I sincerely hope for the sake of our children and their children that my fears are not realised in the future.

Tom

 

[mike killay]

Tom,
You seem to be an unreconstructed Marxist.
Tell us all about the million or more people starved to death in the Ukraine in the 1930' s by Stalin.
Tell us about the Polish officers murdered in Katyn forest by the Marxists.
Explain to us why the Communist Party of Great Britain supported Hitler from 1939 to 1941 until Hitler invaded Russia.
Reassure us that the car burning window smashing idiots now marching on American Streets are not Clinton's Brown Shirts and really believe in democracy.

 

[Woosh]

oldtom,
how can you link brexit in its present state with Nazi Germany is beyond my comprehension. By now, posters on this thread and the country at large have accepted that the referendum is advisory.
The ball is back with Westminster.
Unlike what happened in Germany, if we don't like it, we can go back. It will even a better EU then.
Your defense of Mr Corbyn seems to me that you have placed a blind faith in a politician who has so passed it that I wonder if he'll get to keep his seat at the next general election.
Wake up, man.

crossed with Mike's post.

 

[tillson]

The remark I made towards comments by 'Woosh' triggered something in my mind from earlier today. I read that today is 'Holocaust Memorial Day'. The 1940s Nazi-conducted holocaust of millions, particularly Jews, is one of the blackest periods in western civilisation's history.

At this present time, we are witnessing a re-birth of the same kind of political dimension which brought about the murder of millions of human beings on an industrial scale back in the 1940s. It is probably futile to expect the people who rally behind the modern-day fascists to believe that history could repeat itself but one must speak out rather than stay silent.

Those who promote the message of Farage, Johnson, & Co in the UK and Trump in the USA need to be aware that the holocaust didn't start in the gas chambers; it began with the rhetoric of hate.

View attachment 17452

Sadly, the victims of the 1940s holocaust are now themselves responsible for something not dissimilar in Palestine today.

Here in the UK, we see large groups of people behaving and using similar language as the Nazi extremists did in 1930s Germany and copied by Mosley's blackshirts in this country. Europe has been largely at peace since 1945, the longest period in known history, almost entirely due to what we now call the EU. There are at present, 28 sovereign nation states in that union but only one wishes to break away from it. Where this may lead is a worry to me, particularly as it seems to me that the major reason for this desire to break away is based on hate, rather than any economic or political matter.

I sincerely hope for the sake of our children and their children that my fears are not realised in the future.

Tom

This is a delightfully eccentric post. It's precisely this sort of quirkiness which gives us our British identity and its fantastic. Although I disagree with almost every sentiment, I do love the looniness which shines through, bathing what otherwise would be a rather dark post in a humorous light.

Tom's anti-BREXIT ramblings reassure me that BREXIT is absolutely the correct path for the UK to follow. I've never been more certain.

 

[tillson]

We keep hearing about this groundswell of support for remain and that people are deserting BREXIT.

If the above is the true situation, why are Labour not positioning themselves as being anti BREXIT? Surely they would clean up at the next election if that were the case

 

[oldgroaner]

This is a delightfully eccentric post. It's precisely this sort of quirkiness which gives us our British identity and its fantastic. Although I disagree with almost every sentiment, I do love the looniness which shines through, bathing what otherwise would be a rather dark post in a humorous light.

Tom's anti-BREXIT ramblings reassure me that BREXIT is absolutely the correct path for the UK to follow. I've never been more certain.

Then you are letting sentiment rule you had rather than logic.
Brexit is not happening for your benefit nor mine either.
Brexit is all about exploiting the public for profit, nothing more, nothing less

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

We keep hearing about this groundswell of support for remain and that people are deserting BREXIT.

If the above is the true situation, why are Labour not positioning themselves as being anti BREXIT? Surely they would clean up at the next election if that were the case

Because they are part of the Westminster circus, and caught up in the confidence trick themselves, not daring to make a stand in case it rebounds on them at the next election.
Ironically what they are doing will!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[tillson]

Because they are part of the Westminster circus, and caught up in the confidence trick themselves, not daring to make a stand in case it rebounds on them at the next election.
Ironically what they are doing will!

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

But what trick is this? Prior to the referendum, I got the distinct impression that most MPs were against BREXIT. In fact, the prime minister at the time of the referendum, and you could argue the current prime minister, were against BREXIT.

The entire Gina Miller episode concerned giving MPs the final say on BREXIT. Many on remainers here (not sure if that includes you) were enthused by this because they were confident that MPs would vote BREXIT down.

So what great Westminster conspiracy are we witnessing. Personally, I don't think that there is one.

Incidentally, I see the German Fuehrer is demanding that hasty free trade deals are cut by the EU! Although I find the thought ghastly, I think there may be a six-pence half-crown moment taking place in The Fuehrer's drawers.

 

[oldgroaner]

But what trick is this? Prior to the referendum, I got the distinct impression that most MPs were against BREXIT. In fact, the prime minister at the time of the referendum and you could argue the current prime minister, were against BREXIT.

The entire Gina Miller episode concerned giving MPs the final say on BREXIT. Many on remainers here (not sure if that includes you) we're confident that MPs would vote BREXIT down.

So what great Westminster conspiracy are we witnessing. Personally, I don't think that there is one.

You don't think; well at least we can agree on that, and don't see that there is a Westminster Conspiracy?
Well now, which one would you like?

The long running one where the public is conned into imagining there is a difference between the parties that will result in change if one is voted out and another installed?

Or the recent one over Brexit where quite obviously an opportunity to exploit the public has united them in a single cause of squabbling over the scraps of a deal than none of the major parties have the guts to oppose?

And you don't see a conspiracy? that's reassuring, it must all be a happy coincidence then, eh?

 

[tillson]

You don't think; well at least we can agree on that, and don't see that there is a Westminster Conspiracy?
Well now, which one would you like?

The long running one where the public is conned into imagining there is a difference between the parties that will result in change if one is voted out and another installed?

Or the recent one over Brexit where quite obviously an opportunity to exploit the public has united them in a single cause of squabbling over the scraps of a deal than none of the major parties have the guts to oppose?

And you don't see a conspiracy? that's reassuring, it must all be a happy coincidence then, eh?

Area 51 and RAF Woodbridge springs to mind.

 

[oldgroaner]

tillson looks forward to "The goodness will flow" after Brexit, forgetting that there is first of all nothing to indicate that will happen, but plenty to worry about if and more likely when it doesn't happen.

Brexit wasn't a vote against the EU, for how could it be when ignorance about it and what we derive from membership was rife, and still is in many quarters right up to the present time.

Brexit was a vote for change for the better, a sign of public unhappiness with the way the country is being run, sadly directed against the wrong target.

When things do not change for the better, and let's face it the public expectation goes well beyond a slight improvement.There will be trouble, not helped at all by a press campaign to vilify one side of the debate against the other and harden attitudes.
A deep rift in the population has been artificially created that didn't exist before, but is well and truly there now!

So far no promises have been kept and there is no likelihood they will in future.
It would be nice to think that a change of Government through an election will follow, reversing the decision, but the opposition party that was allegedly in opposition isn't, is it?
And we don't even know whether the EU will have is back do we?

Either the Lib Dems will be resurrected (or the Greens) or more likely there will be trouble beyond the ability of the right wing press to paper over the cracks.

Will the public smile and say, "Never mind, it was a great effort?" or will they find some hothead like Farage who incites dissent to follow?
It's no good blaming the terms the EU imposed, as the Public reaction will simply be something like this.
"Well why did you all (meaning the Westminster Cabal) not see this decision to leave the EU was wrong and vote to prevent this mistake happening?"

And the Brexit voters will have a bad case of memory loss when the trouble erupts, something along the lines (if they admit they did vote to leave)

"Well I thought it was just a protest vote, I didn't expect it to happen"
and after a moment's thought they will add "Well everyone knows it was advisory only"

For all his bluster tillson himelf doubted that leave would win the vote or it would be allowed to happen.
Only one person on here did...guess who?

Funny thing is the Human memory

 

[oldgroaner]

Area 51 and RAF Woodbridge springs to mind.

A touch of the "I see no ships?
Put the telescope to the other eye , tillson!