Brexit, for once some facts.

You forgot to mention, me and the majority of the voting public, not just me.

The majority would like to leave the EU taking the minority with them. That how a democratic decision works.

Your proposal seems to centre around the minority decision prevailing. I would suggest that this is selfish. Oh, forgot to add "and them some."

Sorry to pi$$ on your French fries old fellow.
if you're proclaiming to be correct, it helps if you're correct.

The majority of the voting public did not vote for leaving the EU.

The majority of the people who voted, voted to leave the EU, and thats not what you said.... They voted for a host of reasons. The majority was 13-12, that is not a big majority, certainly not enough to be as smug as some leavers are being.

Public opinion can change, and as prices rise and demographics and the level of understanding of what the EU does for us in terms of trade, peace etc etc grows, you can't be sure that 13-12 majority will stand for long.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
It's dead easy to use google in order to find an article / answer which supports any individual's agenda. Here is one suggesting that immigration does have a negative impact on wages.

http://www.stevenwoolfe.uk/news--press/bank-of-england-research-finally-accepts-immigration-causes-lower-wages

But of course this will be rubbished because it is contrary to what you would like to hear. Only information of an anti-BREXIT nature can have any prospect of truth behind it.

Your contempt for staff working in chip shops and I assume other low skilled employment is despicable. The sneering superiority which shines through in your attitude towards those who are poorly educated, but working hard in low paid jobs is too ugly to put into words. In previous posts, you have proclaimed, it is the poor who will suffer under BREXIT, like some saviour of disadvantaged, yet you harbour such contempt.

You see, those working in low paid jobs are not stupid. They can see straight through you and your sort and they don't like what greets them.
Hilarious post as usual and well up your usual standard

"Your contempt for staff working in chip shops and I assume other low skilled employment is despicable. The sneering superiority which shines through in your attitude towards those who are poorly educated, but working hard in low paid jobs is too ugly to put into words. In previous posts, you have proclaimed, it is the poor who will suffer under BREXIT, like some saviour of disadvantaged, yet you harbour such contempt.
You see, those working in low paid jobs are not stupid. They can see straight through you and your sort and they don't like what greets them.

Don't you think you are overdoing the invective just a bit there? it's all a bit too "scandalised innocent" to come across very convincingly, when you have made posts like this for instance
# 7583
No, it is certain that these stupid, divisive, petty and peevish "politically correct" laws will have been manufactured by some white British ass-hole who belongs in an asylum.


People who live in brick trousers shouldn't blow scones old chap :cool:
Go on, give us a smile :)

PS: If you ever do actually have something you can point to that is ACTUALLY AN ADVANTAGE when leaving the EU please don't hesitate to present it for the enlightenment of all.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
You forgot to mention, me and the majority of the voting public, not just me.

The majority would like to leave the EU taking the minority with them. That how a democratic decision works.

Your proposal seems to centre around the minority decision prevailing. I would suggest that this is selfish. Oh, forgot to add "and them some."

Sorry to pi$$ on your French fries old fellow.
Correction on three points
  1. Bonfire not French Fries
  2. It was an opinion poll not legally binding in the very words of the Author of the bill.
  3. Lord Farage said that if the vote had been 52 to 48 to remain it would be "Unfinished Business" only a 2:1 vote to Remain would end the matter.
Personally I can't wait for us to leave, what fun!
I am so looking forward to you getting what you are so ardently seeking.

Are we there yet?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
You can't be sure that 13-12 majority will stand for long.
I have great faith in the Right wing press's ability to Gull the Public, and that they will still support the decision, only changing their minds by too little when it is too late.
Brexit is like one of the precursor shocks before an eruption.
When the public do finally waken from the dream, things will go from bad to worse in a very unfortunate way.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
The majority would like to leave the EU taking the minority with them. That how a democratic decision works.
Clearly, you are incapable of understanding the difference between the democratic process and a snapshot referendum to determine the will of the people at a given moment in time.

You really ought to come clean and state clearly why you wish the UK to secede from the union. You have singularly failed to identify any benefits from secession on being asked so why should we leave?

You know that my personal belief is that you are a racist in denial and I think that is a fair inference to draw from your otherwise baseless premise that 'Brexit' is a good idea. If I'm wrong, do tell me exactly where or how I have misunderstood your position.

Tom
 
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anotherkiwi

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 26, 2015
7,845
5,786
The European Union
Ideology Tom, that's his fuel.

For a while I thought it was amused provocation and cynicism with maybe a dash of irony, hell maybe a bit of anarchy and he didn't really think what he was writing.

Then I swing to another point of view and see a closet full of black shirts...
 

D8ve

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2013
2,142
1,294
Bristol
Ditto that but nonetheless, if he has anything to do with passenger jet travel, I shall never fly again!

Tom
I have been reassured that the strapping on this is American, therefore it's not our airdropped scrappage scheme.
Those in the know should identify what is wrong with the placement of the crushable sacrifical hexagonal paper.
That's been my amusement for the day.
 

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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
Clearly, you are incapable of understanding the difference between the democratic process and a snapshot referendum to determine the will of the people at a given moment in time.

You really ought to come clean and state clearly why you wish the UK to secede from the union. You have singularly failed to identify any benefits from secession on being asked so why should we leave?

You know that my personal belief is that you are a racist in denial and I think that is a fair inference to draw from your otherwise baseless premise that 'Brexit' is a good idea. If I'm wrong, do tell me exactly where or how I have misunderstood your position.

Tom
Think nothing of it Tom. As you are aware, my personal view of you is that you are an arse-hole and a rank hypocrite, so no harm done.

Strap yourself in, BREXIT blast off is fast approaching. It's going to be a fast and exciting ride. :)
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Think nothing of it Tom. As you are aware, my personal view of you is that you are an arse-hole and a rank hypocrite, so no harm done.

Strap yourself in, BREXIT blast off is fast approaching. It's going to be a fast and exciting ride. :)
Ignoring the first paragraph I can at least partially agree with the second paragraph.
Along the lines of "fast and exciting ride, and all well so far!"
Cried the falling man as he passed the 99th floor going down.
 

oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
you are an arse-hole and a rank hypocrite
That language of the gutter fits with the rest of your perverse views on serious matters Tillson. You have no reason to think the UK would be better off outside of the UK and you cannot argue any case for secession on economic, military or strategic grounds but you will rage and curse at those who believe you are simply misguided and wrong.

You have had an open forum here with an invitation to persuade others how you believe the UK would be a better place ex-EU but you simply don't have any facts or figures to support your position. Instead of admitting you're wrong, you just become increasingly insulting and derogatory.

Tell us again why 'Brexit' is a good thing.

Tom
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
That language of the gutter fits with the rest of your perverse views on serious matters Tillson.

Instead of admitting you're wrong, you just become increasingly insulting and derogatory.

Tell us again why 'Brexit' is a good thing.

Tom
You see. It's precisely this type of behaviour which defines you as an arse-hole and a rank hypocrite.

Please continue.
 

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
That language of the gutter fits with the rest of your perverse views on serious matters Tillson. You have no reason to think the UK would be better off outside of the UK and you cannot argue any case for secession on economic, military or strategic grounds but you will rage and curse at those who believe you are simply misguided and wrong.

You have had an open forum here with an invitation to persuade others how you believe the UK would be a better place ex-EU but you simply don't have any facts or figures to support your position. Instead of admitting you're wrong, you just become increasingly insulting and derogatory.

Tell us again why 'Brexit' is a good thing.

Tom
So its ok for you Tom to insult all and sundry but Tillson insults you and he,s using ( quite correctly in your case) gutter language.
You really are a hypocritical ar5e hole.
And by the way, all your and OG,s ramblings merely reinforce all the leavers feelings. You and your ilk are exactly why remain lost. Folk listened to the insults, being called thick, racist, xenophobic and walked into polling booth and said " feck you" .I,m voting out..Your kind are almost as responsible for out vote as the fool Osborne.
Just keep on insulting Tom, its doing leave a favour..
Irony, sweet irony.
The Troll ( the bigoted one)
 
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danielrlee

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 27, 2012
1,394
723
Westbury, Wiltshire
torquetech.co.uk
Hasn't everyone wasted enough of their time bickering about this by now? I know that if I were as old (and supposedly wise) as some of you guys, I'd not waste another moment of my life trying to convince somebody else that my views on the matter are more valid than theirs.

Just maybe its finally time for this thread to die now. Maybe...?
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
So its ok for you Tom to insult all and sundry but Tillson insults you and he,s using ( quite correctly in your case) gutter language.
You really are a hypocritical ar5e hole.
And by the way, all your and OG,s ramblings merely reinforce all the leavers feelings. You and your ilk are exactly why remain lost. Folk listened to the insults, being called thick, racist, xenophobic and walked into polling booth and said " feck you" .I,m voting out..Your kind are almost as responsible for out vote as the fool Osborne.
Just keep on insulting Tom, its doing leave a favour..
Irony, sweet irony.
The Troll ( the bigoted one)
Well at least you are consistent, a sort of equal opportunities critic that like a leech has attached itself to tillson when he's having one of his "off" days.
What has he done to deserve your support?

And you are really way off the mark if you think tom and I influenced the out vote, for as far as I know, neither he nor I invented time travel to go back before the vote to influence the decision with attitudes that appeared after the event.

In reality tom campaigned for the Remote vote, do you imagine he would have been calling them "thick, racist, xenophobic " when he was attempting to sway them to vote remain?
Only you could believe such a thing, which pretty much demonstrates the level of logic in your arguments, ie none.

Hence this statement shows how irrational you are
"Folk listened to the insults, being called thick, racist, xenophobic and walked into polling booth and said " feck you" .I'm voting out..Your kind are almost as responsible for out vote "

Did they travel in time forward to hear these things, then back again into the past to vote?

Only a complete idiot would believe the things you say, are you one of them too, or is this nonsense just for public consumption?
You appear unable to connect either cause and effect, or mouth with brain, and your only purpose is to cause mischief.
 
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tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
Well at least you are consistent, a sort of equal opportunities critic that like a leech has attached itself to tillson when he's having one of his "off" days.
What has he done to deserve your support?

And you are really way off the mark if you think tom and I influenced the out vote, for as far as I know, neither he nor I invented time travel to go back before the vote to influence the decision either way.
In reality tom campaigned for the Remote vote, do you imagine he would have been calling them "thick, racist, xenophobic " when he was attempting to sway them to vote remain?
Only you could believe such a thing, which pretty much demonstrates the level of logic in your arguments, ie none.

Hence this statement shows how irrational you are
"Folk listened to the insults, being called thick, racist, xenophobic and walked into polling booth and said " feck you" .I'm voting out..Your kind are almost as responsible for out vote "

Did they travel in time forward to hear these things, than back again into the past to vote?

Only a complete idiot would believe the things you say, are you one of them too, or is this nonsense just for public consumption?
You appear unable to connect either cause and effect, or mouth with brain.

I think you are being unfair.

First of all, Zlatan has not attached himself to me. It just so happens that some of our views regarding BREXIT coincide. Just like some of your views coincide with those of old tom, kudos bloke, ktm man, flecc and others. You haven't attached yourselves to each other and neither have we. The idea is ridiculous.

I'm affraid that Zlatan is also correct regarding the insults levelled at those who support BREXIT. In some instances there have been direct insults and accusations of racism. Granted that on this forum these words mainly originate from old tom, and I will further concede that he is an arse-hole, thus mitigating the affect, but the overall sentiment is still present.

On top of this, there exists an unpleasant and generally sneering attitude towards BREXIT. A desire to portray supporters as being poorly educated, low paid, unskilled, racist, xenophobic, of low mental capacity, gullible, Daily Mail readers, thugs and so on. In other words, if it's something that people would not like to consider themselves as being, then it's BREXIT. And I think Zlatan is spot on, remain has totally and foolishly underestimated the BREXIT opposition both before and after the referendum. Many people have genuine concerns about our EU membership and instead of trying to engage with them and identifying with their concerns, remain have tried to insult them into submission. And that has back-fired in the most spectacular fashion imaginable.

The only attitudes which stand a chance of engaging with people are primarily the approach adopted by flecc and occasionally OG (when he isn't copy / paste the newspapers).

I strongly disagree with the idea of a second referendum, but if one was held, I believe that BREXIT would win again, but with a greater majority. And I also believe that if there is a cost to BREXIT, people will accept that cost as a price worth paying.
 
I thought this thread was about facts... so it will go on as long as there is a need for facts about Brexit.

There have been two chances for the public to vote so far in 2017. Both were last night. They both show a crazy swing.



So that's Lib Dems gaining from Labour in a massive leave area of Sunderland with a 41.5% swing!! and them also taking a set from Conservatives with another 20+% swing, which nows gives them that council as a whole.

I wonder what could be causing this swing? Is it that the people who vote in normal elections, like these, and general elections aren't quite the same as the people who came out for the one hit protest vote in June? We know lots of them voted for the first time. Is it that people aren't happy with the fact that they voted for something, they clearly aren't going to get?

Either way, the pro EU parties and candidates are doing very well.
 
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I strongly disagree with the idea of a second referendum, but if one was held, I believe that BREXIT would win again, but with a greater majority. And I also believe that if there is a cost to BREXIT, people will accept that cost as a price worth paying.
don't want to wind you up, but I think you mean a third one don't you? The one in June 2016 was already the 2nd referendum on our relationship with the EU ;)
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,376
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Although I try to avoid BBC TV as much as I can, there was an opportunity last evening for anyone sufficiently interested to see what Aaron Banks has to say on 'Brexit' and on the NHS.

I'm aware that the vast majority of 'leave' voters have absolutely no idea who Aaron Banks is so here is his picture, courtesy of AAV:
15977210_1422431587796750_1494798574437406066_n.jpg

I also attach a little infographic illustrating the kind of people 'leavers' want to see running the UK and what may be expected from them in the not too distant future:
15895254_1422434661129776_3652389268588876788_n.png

Tom
 
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