Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

When I questioned the big price rises from one of my UK suppliers he made the point that one thing is sure .....we should not worry about price rises because 17 million voted for them !!!!!
KudosDave

Sadly Dave, that's about the size of it! As this pre-Article 50 purgatory drags on, the pain in the wallet or purse will become inexorably more acute.

Farage saw an opportunity for self-aggrandisement and used the British public like lambs to the slaughter.

Tom

 

[gray198]

And of course the Daily Mail
"
The town where even immigrants are fed up with migration: Failing schools, filthy streets and benefit fraud - a ROBERT HARDMAN dispatch which those who accuse Brexiteers of being racist MUST read

• The Page Hall district in Sheffield is the subject of a new Government report
• Reports highlights impact of 6,000 Roma moving into one Asian community
• In this area, the only complaint about Brexit is that it will come too late

And the paper sees no irony in the following
The allegedly indigenous population doesn't want the Asians here and they in turn don't want the Roma here?
And the paper by using the situation to stir up pro Brexit anger and maintain support for it's propaganda campaign isn't itself employing the noble art of racism by the implication that all foreigners are trouble?
Or are we to assume that the motives of the paper are noble and intended to bring the situation to public attention thus ensuring a lasting solution is found for this perceived problem resulting in it's resolution to the benefit of all concerned?
A Classic case of pretending to fight a fire, but using petrol instead of water

OG are you suggesting that because the truth is uncomfortable it should be hidden. Did you see the reports yesterday that a shop in Muswell Hill was being attacked and threatened with a boycott whilst being accused of being racist for simply being called Really British. This by people who are more than likely to use the word RACIST very liberally. I would suggest that if the word BRITISH had been Polish or Muslim the perpetrators would more than likely been arrested for hate crime. What sort of a country are we becoming where just to say British is offending some people. BTW I am not Tillson. I am nowhere near as eloquent or informed, but I do share many of his viewpoints although not always.

 

[Woosh]

Andy Burham joins leavers...was an ardent remained...now saying leaving could be good for country.

So this week we,ve seen Cameron and bloke mentioned both say completely opposite to pre June 23rd.

Andy Burnham's comment should be seen in the context of state aids within the Single Market, regarding re-industrialization of Lancashire/Manchester. There are a lot of assumptions there. It is important to understand the EU framework to arrive at a properly reasoned view. The EU Single Market does not forbid state aids nor public investments.
http://europa.eu/rapid/press-release_IP-16-1782_en.htm
Cameron is essentially a politician, he'd say anything to excuse or advance himself. So he is a euro-skeptic all along, what's new?

 

[Wicky]

Thought Mogg was good last night.

He seemed quite uncomfortable as it gradually dawned on him he was on the programme soley for his talent as laughing-stock.

 

[Kudoscycles]

Assuming we end up with hard Brexit,am I right in the following assumptions...
If we free trade with China,there will be no import tariffs?
If we WTO with the EU there will be average 10% tariffs between the EU and UK?
We will have work permits between the EU and the U.K.
It will mean that our trading will be different,more insular,lots of imports from China,the EU will only buy what they have to from the UK,similarly we will only buy what we want from Europe. Some UK businesses will prosper,helped by EU/UK protection tariffs,EU/UK imports will suffer.
Exports to Europe will become more bespoke but maybe UK products will have a luxury cache. Businesses which rely on mainly EU customers will struggle.
I could work round hard Brexit,it would be fun looking for new products that are not currently viable to trade because of EU anti-dumping duties....bicycles would be top of my shopping list.
Hard Brexit would be a new challenge,but we are up for it.
Cannot see how hard Brexit would benefit the Leave voters who thought it would improve their lifestyle and work situation,the free trade deal with China would suck in a lot of Asian imports.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

OG are you suggesting that because the truth is uncomfortable it should be hidden. Did you see the reports yesterday that a shop in Muswell Hill was being attacked and threatened with a boycott whilst being accused of being racist for simply being called Really British. This by people who are more than likely to use the word RACIST very liberally. I would suggest that if the word BRITISH had been Polish or Muslim the perpetrators would more than likely been arrested for hate crime. What sort of a country are we becoming where just to say British is offending some people. BTW I am not Tillson. I am nowhere near as eloquent or informed, but I do share many of his viewpoints although not always.

Really that shop was only selling the cheap Asian products that we all see in the tourist shops around London. His name would suggest that he was selling 'made in Britain' products but sadly that wasn't the case.
It reminds me of a well known e-bike supplier,run by a delightful English guy,who put Union Jack stickers on bikes made in Shanghai,mustn't shout about it,hehe.
KudosDave

 

[anotherkiwi]

The question as always Dave is who are your clients and how are they going to earn a living to pay for what you want to sell?

Luxury goods are not, and have never been, a problem. Rich people do not know what austerity means, they have read the definition in a dictionary and it ends there...

 

[oldgroaner]

"
Nigel Farage launches scathing attack on Ukip's 'low-grade people'"
Do take the time to read this
https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2016/dec/09/nigel-farage-scathing-attack-ukip-low-grade-people.

And this party is supposed to be the next opposition? when it's ex leader is so scathing?

What stance do you expect the guardian to take with regard to Farage, if he fed the 5000, they would complain about the those who got nothing.

He's too busy filling his own pockets to feed anyone else isn't he?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

OG are you suggesting that because the truth is uncomfortable it should be hidden. Did you see the reports yesterday that a shop in Muswell Hill was being attacked and threatened with a boycott whilst being accused of being racist for simply being called Really British. This by people who are more than likely to use the word RACIST very liberally. I would suggest that if the word BRITISH had been Polish or Muslim the perpetrators would more than likely been arrested for hate crime. What sort of a country are we becoming where just to say British is offending some people. BTW I am not Tillson. I am nowhere near as eloquent or informed, but I do share many of his viewpoints although not always.

No I'm suggesting it is being used for propaganda not for any valid purpose, surely that is simple enough?


Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldtom]

We could all learn something from Doreen. Who the.....is Doreen, I hear you say?

Watch and learn:

https://www.facebook.com/doreentiptonlazycow/

Tom

 

[flecc]

It reminds me of a well known e-bike supplier,run by a delightful English guy,who put Union Jack stickers on bikes made in Shanghai,mustn't shout about it,hehe.
KudosDave

Naughty!

Anyway, I daresay that most of the union flags that people wave are made in China.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The question as always Dave is who are your clients and how are they going to earn a living to pay for what you want to sell?

Luxury goods are not, and have never been, a problem. Rich people do not know what austerity means, they have read the definition in a dictionary and it ends there...

The biggest problem for most small businesses was the sudden fall in the value of the pound against the US dollar. I must say that I am surprised how easily most people accepted the resultant price rises,so far.
Ironically I can ultimately see most of the post Brexit complaints coming from Leavers not Remainers,those Leavers who expected their protest vote to ultimately lead to an improvement in lifestyle....sorry guys but you have the wrong government in power to achieve that,Hammond has already shown what his idea of Brexit looks like.
I am coming round to accept we are heading for a hard Brexit,if we want control of our borders we will have to leave the single market.
My customers are not always rich but they tend to be comfortably off,they have lived through the golden era of free education,massive house equity hikes and with golden pensions.
I suppose the sad thing about Brexit is that we haven't considered our kids and grandkids,they are often looking forward to working in any country,we have benefited from them paying massive mortgages and they are having to contribute to us all living longer on pretty stagnant wages.
Originally I thought the downside of Brexit was restrictions on trade,that may prove to be so or not. But now I think the biggest downside is restricting the movement of people,we surely could have found a better way of controlling immigration in all EU countries than Brexit?
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

OG are you suggesting that because the truth is uncomfortable it should be hidden. Did you see the reports yesterday that a shop in Muswell Hill was being attacked and threatened with a boycott whilst being accused of being racist for simply being called Really British. This by people who are more than likely to use the word RACIST very liberally. I would suggest that if the word BRITISH had been Polish or Muslim the perpetrators would more than likely been arrested for hate crime. What sort of a country are we becoming where just to say British is offending some people. BTW I am not Tillson. I am nowhere near as eloquent or informed, but I do share many of his viewpoints although not always.

Sorry I nearly missed the second point you were making as I responded to the first,
In the words of the owner
""Since we opened things have got even worse. Yesterday was quite a low point. Four people came in and complained. Sales have gone down since when we opened."
Two possible ways to view this

1. The PC brigade have impressed the British Public too much (like our resident Troll is trying to do.)
2. The shopkeeper who will be in all probability selling goods made in China has hit on an excellent Marketing ploy of wanting sympathy and free publicity to boost flagging sales,

Which answer do you prefer?
And here is a thought: This is what is offered as evidence
"
One member of the Muswell Hill and Friends group wrote: "Chris, while I applaud you setting up a business in Muswell Hill and employing local people I'm curious as to why you decided to call your shop 'Really British' (besides the obvious point that you will sell British-made goods)?

"Like many people I live in London because of its international nature, and for me personally having a big sign on the Broadway saying 'Really British' makes me feel you're implying that other local businesses in the area are therefore somehow 'not really British'.

"Some will no doubt say I'm over-sensitive. But I can't help thinking that given the recent divisive referendum and the current political climate you might have chosen a more inclusive name in 2016."

My goodness what a frightening and threatening letter that was, it looks rather like a very mild questioning of his logic and whether he thought it polite to other businesses to me.

 

[oldgroaner]

Naughty!

Anyway, I daresay that most of the union flags that people wave are made in China.
.

There are literally millions of Union Jacks made in China left over unsold from the Chinese premiers visit!

 

[flecc]

What sort of a country are we becoming where just to say British is offending some people.

It's always offended me because there is no such thing as British.

Britain is not a nation, it is a federation of two nations, England and Wales. Great Britain is not a nation, it is a federation of three nations, England, Wales and Scotland.

The EU doesn't appear to recognise the use of British as a nationality but refers to UK citizens instead.

One cannot be a nationality of something which is not a nation, and the expedient misuse by our government of British nationality for such as naturalised immigrants doesn't change that fact.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Out of curiosity I pushed the "Show ignored content button" to see if the Troll was still with us.
Ah well he hasn't taken the hint, it was pretty predictable that having failed to derail the thread, he would try to spread dissent and division behind the scenes like this

"Support Tillsons thoughts but I,m leaving OG and Tom on ignore. Suggest you two reciprocate.( kindly)"

Shame he (supposedly) can't see this and realise this is not the way to comply with either the rules or spirit of Forum life.

Still intent on being a troublemaker, just lacks the intelligence to make a good job of it, or better still create trouble elsewhere.

 

[anotherkiwi]

The biggest problem for most small businesses was the sudden fall in the value of the pound against the US dollar. I must say that I am surprised how easily most people accepted the resultant price rises,so far.
Ironically I can ultimately see most of the post Brexit complaints coming from Leavers not Remainers,those Leavers who expected their protest vote to ultimately lead to an improvement in lifestyle....sorry guys but you have the wrong government in power to achieve that,Hammond has already shown what his idea of Brexit looks like.
I am coming round to accept we are heading for a hard Brexit,if we want control of our borders we will have to leave the single market.
My customers are not always rich but they tend to be comfortably off,they have lived through the golden era of free education,massive house equity hikes and with golden pensions.
I suppose the sad thing about Brexit is that we haven't considered our kids and grandkids,they are often looking forward to working in any country,we have benefited from them paying massive mortgages and they are having to contribute to us all living longer on pretty stagnant wages.
Originally I thought the downside of Brexit was restrictions on trade,that may prove to be so or not. But now I think the biggest downside is restricting the movement of people,we surely could have found a better way of controlling immigration in all EU countries than Brexit?
KudosDave

You have control over your border, Ireland has control over the other one! Didn't anyone tell you? Have you tried getting into the UK as a non EU citizen? Have you tried as a member of the Commonwealth? Trust me it isn't a wide open affair. Monaco, San Remo and the Vatican don't have control over their borders.

The real problem is lack of finance to stop illegal immigrants getting into the EU in the first place, the ones getting into Spain, Italy and Greece, not the movement of EU citizens. Some have also taken to trekking across the Balkans from Syria via Turkey.

The very best idea is to stop these people from wanting/needing to migrate in the first place, it is the most cost effective and I might add the most humane.

The second best idea is to treat them decently and then help them return to their homes, see point one.

The only people complaining about the hourly rate of Polish plumbers in the UK is UK plumbers...

 

[gray198]

Really that shop was only selling the cheap Asian products that we all see in the tourist shops around London. His name would suggest that he was selling 'made in Britain' products but sadly that wasn't the case.
It reminds me of a well known e-bike supplier,run by a delightful English guy,who put Union Jack stickers on bikes made in Shanghai,mustn't shout about it,hehe.
KudosDave

So he doesn't have a legal right to sell those things without being subjected to racist abuse. Aren't the bikes you sell manufactured in Asia?? Or at least part of them

 

[gray198]

No I'm suggesting it is being used for propaganda not for any valid purpose, surely that is simple enough?



Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

I don't agree . You see it that way because you want to

 

[gray198]

Sorry I nearly missed the second point you were making as I responded to the first,
In the words of the owner
""Since we opened things have got even worse. Yesterday was quite a low point. Four people came in and complained. Sales have gone down since when we opened."
Two possible ways to view this

1. The PC brigade have impressed the British Public too much (like our resident Troll is trying to do.)
2. The shopkeeper who will be in all probability selling goods made in China has hit on an excellent Marketing ploy of wanting sympathy and free publicity to boost flagging sales,

Which answer do you prefer?
And here is a thought: This is what is offered as evidence
"
One member of the Muswell Hill and Friends group wrote: "Chris, while I applaud you setting up a business in Muswell Hill and employing local people I'm curious as to why you decided to call your shop 'Really British' (besides the obvious point that you will sell British-made goods)?

"Like many people I live in London because of its international nature, and for me personally having a big sign on the Broadway saying 'Really British' makes me feel you're implying that other local businesses in the area are therefore somehow 'not really British'.

"Some will no doubt say I'm over-sensitive. But I can't help thinking that given the recent divisive referendum and the current political climate you might have chosen a more inclusive name in 2016."

My goodness what a frightening and threatening letter that was, it looks rather like a very mild questioning of his logic and whether he thought it polite to other businesses to me.

What about the third point or do you want to just ignore it??