Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

Nice try, but it's the authorities who accused him of being a crook, not merely the public, because he so obviously is.
His attendance record while drawing expenses alone is damning, as is using EU money to fund UK political electioneering.
You comment is laughable to suggest otherwise, as usual.
As old tom observed if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it generally is a duck.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Then if the people believe the Nigel Farage hating authorities who are making these accusations, then they are free to act in the ballot box. The fact that he is repeatedly re-elected provides you with your answer.

His failure to attend and to vote in the EU Parliament, combined with his outspoken criticism when he does, reflects his utter contempt for the EU. People who vote for him also hold the EU in contempt, as is their right to do so. Nigel Farage is taking their message straight to the heart of the organisation. He does this in the face of the most disgusting tirade of abuse, smearing and lies from his opponents. He deserves a peerage.

If you know what the people want, channel your efforts into standing against Nigel Farage and put you ideas to the democratic test.

 

[tillson]

Our problem has always been that the "natives" abroad don't quite get our sense of humour.

Almost correct. The problem is that a handful of the natives here incorrectly think that the natives abroad don't get our sense of humour. These immature idiots then believe that they should become offended by proxy and start complaining.

I wonder if any Muslim or Hindu or any faith has ever been offended by the word Christmas in a Christian church Parrish's traditional Christmas Fair, causing it to be re-branded a Winter Fair? I suspect not. I would imagine Muslims or Hindus or other faith either have no strong views either way, or they join in. In much the same way that all faiths were present enjoying Diwali in Leicester a few weeks ago.

No, it is certain that these stupid, divisive, petty and peevish "politically correct" laws will have been manufactured by some white British ass-hole who belongs in an asylum.

 

[anotherkiwi]

M.Farage was elected as MEP to defend the interests of the people in the constituency he ran for. No companies in that constituency needed research grant funding and it didn't need infrastructure investment money from the EU apparently? They just wanted an MEP to work as hard as he could against the interests of UK businesses and the UK population on a whole? How strange...

 

[oldgroaner]

Then if the people believe the Nigel Farage hating authorities who are making these accusations, then they are free to act in the ballot box. The fact that he is repeatedly re-elected provides you with your answer.

His failure to attend and to vote in the EU Parliament, combined with his outspoken criticism when he does, reflects his utter contempt for the EU. People who vote for him also hold the EU in contempt, as is their right to do so. Nigel Farage is taking their message straight to the heart of the organisation. He does this in the face of the most disgusting tirade of abuse, smearing and lies from his opponents. He deserves a peerage.

If you know what the people want, channel your efforts into standing against Nigel Farage and put you ideas to the democratic test.

You really are hilarious aren't you?
"He does this in the face of the most disgusting tirade of abuse, smearing and lies from his opponents. He deserves a peerage. "

Somewhere very far away, perhaps in Antarctica?
Do give over , the man is just an example of that British sense of humour at work, as is the fact that we keep getting the sort of Governments we do.

Besides, I really am too old and frail to face the lobotomy needed to reduce my mental capacity to the point where contesting an election campaign against such an opponent, would be an attractive way of wasting time.

After all if people want the sort of nonsense he stands for then they are getting what they deserve.
Far be it from me to attempt to prevent people bent on self abuse from exercising their "democratic" right to impose a non legal brexit on us on the strength of an opinion poll that asked such a question, of a population that hadn't a clue as to what they were voting for.
Ask yourself this simple question.
If the combined brains of the Government still haven't worked that out to date, what chance had Joe Public of making the right decision back then?
The only bit I object to is that the rest (majority) of us have to suffer while this Dog's Brexit stutters to a halt, and wait till the rest of the World stops laughing and asks
Have you finished in the Loo?
I.M.H.O.

 

[oldgroaner]

M.Farage was elected as MEP to defend the interests of the people in the constituency he ran for. No companies in that constituency needed research grant funding and it didn't need infrastructure investment money from the EU apparently? They just wanted an MEP to work as hard as he could against the interests of UK businesses and the UK population on a whole? How strange...

It's called the " British sense of Humour," which translates neatly as "inconceivable self destructive stupidity" in all other languages, and even here only appeals to about a third of the population, or perhaps more at Full moon.
I.M.H.O.

 

[tillson]

It's called the " British sense of Humour," which translates neatly as "inconceivable self destructive stupidity" in all other languages, and even here only appeals to about a third of the population, or perhaps more at Full moon.
I.M.H.O.

This is just your minority opinion. Of corse you have every right to express it, but it is a minority opinion and far more people hold an opposing view.

 

[oldgroaner]

Almost correct. The problem is that a handful of the natives here incorrectly think that the natives abroad don't get our sense of humour. These immature idiots then believe that they should become offended by proxy and start complaining.

I wonder if any Muslim or Hindu or any faith has ever been offended by the word Christmas in a Christian church Parrish's traditional Christmas Fair, causing it to be re-branded a Winter Fair? I suspect not. I would imagine Muslims or Hindus or other faith either have no strong views either way, or they join in. In much the same way that all faiths were present enjoying Diwali in Leicester a few weeks ago.

No, it is certain that these stupid, divisive, petty and peevish "politically correct" laws will have been manufactured by some white British ass-hole who belongs in an asylum.

Actually PC is the reason that parliament humours the Brexit referendum, as it is afraid of a violent public reaction as promised by Lord Nigel, even though there is no legal reason to enforce the result of an "Advisory" referendum on the strength of the promise of a Prime Minister who reneged on the Bet immediately, and Davis and Lord Nigel's own words saying that if the result had gone the other way by similar percentages it would not settle the matter but remain work in progress, and that only a 2 to 1 vote against leaving would end the contest.
Therefore invoking the very words of the Main Champions of Brexit, it is simply
Work in progress and a 2 to 1 vote to leave the EU is required to bring the contest to an end satisfactory to all sides.
I'm afraid in reality Brexit has in the words of it's founding Fathers failed to achieve a positive victory.
By it's own declared aims and rules democratically announced and published, it failed miserably to achieve the Mandate level of support it required of it's opponents to accept defeat.
All that keeps it afloat is fear of a mob reacting with violence.
What a way to run an allegedly democratic country.
Next Case please.

 

[Woosh]

M.Farage was elected as MEP to defend the interests of the people in the constituency he ran for.

the MEP election system is based on party-list proportional representation. Voters select the party, not the MEPs, therein lies the problem, nobody knows who their MEPs are. They are also encouraged by protest parties to use their vote to punish the government of the day.

 

[Wicky]

Before proportional representation Farage failed to get elected to the European Parliament.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electoral_history_of_Nigel_Farage#Elections_to_the_European_Parliament

and in other news...

Hard Brexit 'could cost Tories next election' - MPs

Pursuing a "hard" Brexit could alienate core Conservative voters and cost the party the next general election, a group of Tory MPs has warned.
The group - which includes ex-attorney general Dominic Grieve - said "a moderate core" of Tory voters do not want the party to become "UKIP-lite".

 

[oldgroaner]

This is just your minority opinion. Of corse you have every right to express it, but it is a minority opinion and far more people hold an opposing view.

Oh tillson you forgot to add that this is in your Humble opinion, didn't you?
Who knows after all the present mood of the nation?
(Don't mention that bye election)

 

[oldgroaner]

the MEP election system is based on party-list proportional representation. Voters select the party, not the MEPs, therein lies the problem, nobody knows who their MEPs are. They are also encouraged by protest parties to use their vote to punish the government of the day.

I agree .It's really a sort of "Mooning" reaction to the real world, reminding me of that post "Whatever it is, I'm against it" by Groucho

 

[tillson]

Our problem has always been that the "natives" abroad don't quite get our sense of humour.

Hence Boris and Farage.....
"It's such a shame that a handful of culturally and emotionally immature people have been listened to and unjustly been awarded such credibility"
Describes the situation with your usual incisive clarity.
I couldn't have put that better myself!

Top marks old chap!
I.M.H.O ad nauseum etc.

The oldgroaner doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[oldgroaner]

The oldgroaner doth protest too much, methinks.

Steady there tillson I was just misquoting you! does that means you are including yourself in that remark?

 

[tillson]

Actually PC is the reason that parliament humours the Brexit referendum, as it is afraid of a violent public reaction as promised by Lord Nigel, even though there is no legal reason to enforce the result of an "Advisory" referendum on the strength of the promise of a Prime Minister who reneged on the Bet immediately, and Davis and Lord Nigel's own words saying that if the result had gone the other way by similar percentages it would not settle the matter but remain work in progress, and that only a 2 to 1 vote against leaving would end the contest.
Therefore invoking the very words of the Main Champions of Brexit, it is simply
Work in progress and a 2 to 1 vote to leave the EU is required to bring the contest to an end satisfactory to all sides.
I'm afraid in reality Brexit has in the words of it's founding Fathers failed to achieve a positive victory.
By it's own declared aims and rules democratically announced and published, it failed miserably to achieve the Mandate level of support it required of it's opponents to accept defeat.
All that keeps it afloat is fear of a mob reacting with violence.
What a way to run an allegedly democratic country.
Next Case please.

Again, The oldgroaner doth protest too much, methinks.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Maybe the EU should devote a little bit more of its budget to explain to people all over Europe what it actually does.

 

[oldgroaner]

Again, The oldgroaner doth protest too much, methinks.

Sorry old chap, I promise to be good for a little while at least and not mention the bye election result again...
Maybe even put in a good word for Lord Nigel as a sign of my contrition.
How about something like "That last resignation speech was the best thing he has ever done" to cheer you up?

 

[Zlatan]

I presumed that was how you were getting messages out!

You seem very well informed about such matters ?
Perhaps nursecould tighten your straps up a bit to limit length of your posts.

OG
You are very quick to point out others being misled by media but fall into the very trap yourself. There has been a smear campaign against both Boris and Farage...some stuff based on reality, some exaggerated, some made up..its same with all folk in public eye. Some realise this and treat all reports with a pinch of salt . You are very selective with your salt seller. Everything anti Brexit is absolute truth, everything pro brexit lies . The more reasoned ( and sane) amongst us try and see both sides and base opinions on facts .( eg. Luxembourg is richest country in EU, Junkers is their ex priminister,and now head of EU, none coincidental IMO)

Be a bit more liberal with the salt OG..

 

[tillson]

You seem very well informed about such matters ?
Perhaps nursecould tighten your straps up a bit to limit length of your posts.

OG
You are very quick to point out others being misled by media but fall into the very trap yourself. There has been a smear campaign against both Boris and Farage...some stuff based on reality, some exaggerated, some made up..its same with all folk in public eye. Some realise this and treat all reports with a pinch of salt . You are very selective with your salt seller. Everything anti Brexit is absolute truth, everything pro brexit lies . The more reasoned ( and sane) amongst us try and see both sides and base opinions on facts .( eg. Luxembourg is richest country in EU, Junkers is their ex priminister,and now head of EU, none coincidental IMO)

Be a bit more liberal with the salt OG..

A perfect summary.

 

[oldtom]

I was surprised that the Whigs are back in existence http://whigs.uk/

Traditional opposition to the tories in the olden days as some of you may remember. I don't think there will be any chance of forming a quality government though, I can't remember if there's ever been one.

I can help you with your last sentence 'Croxden' in that we have had top quality government previously. That of Clement Attlee in those early post-WW2 years is undoubtedly the greatest, socially-inclusive administration of modern times in the UK.

As for the Whig Party, I was surprised to read your link but somewhat unsurprisingly, their web pages resemble the kind of thing I would expect from an upper-school debating society. It's a real mixed bag but their manifesto is straight out of the handbook of political rhetoric, patriotic slogans and soundbites, with few socialist ideals other than the obvious.......no surprises there.

My guess is they would be indistinguishable from the tory scum if they were ever to gain power so I view them like UKIP, simply another tory construct to steal votes away from the socialist groupings. The tories see this is as an easy way to create a one-party state instead of through violent and bloody revolution.

Tom

 

[Zlatan]

I can help you with your last sentence 'Croxden' in that we have had top quality government previously. That of Clement Attlee in those early post-WW2 years is undoubtedly the greatest, socially-inclusive administration of modern times in the UK.

As for the Whig Party, I was surprised to read your link but somewhat unsurprisingly, their web pages resemble the kind of thing I would expect from an upper-school debating society. It's a real mixed bag but their manifesto is straight out of the handbook of political rhetoric, patriotic slogans and soundbites, with few socialist ideals other than the obvious.......no surprises there.

My guess is they would be indistinguishable from the tory scum if they were ever to gain power so I view them like UKIP, simply another tory construct to steal votes away from the socialist groupings. The tories see this is as an easy way to create a one-party state instead of through violent and bloody revolution.

I can help you with your last sentence 'Croxden' in that we have had top quality government previously. That of Clement Attlee in those early post-WW2 years is undoubtedly the greatest, socially-inclusive administration of modern times in the UK.

As for the Whig Party, I was surprised to read your link but somewhat unsurprisingly, their web pages resemble the kind of thing I would expect from an upper-school debating society. It's a real mixed bag but their manifesto is straight out of the handbook of political rhetoric, patriotic slogans and soundbites, with few socialist ideals other than the obvious.......no surprises there.

My guess is they would be indistinguishable from the tory scum if they were ever to gain power so I view them like UKIP, simply another tory construct to steal votes away from the socialist groupings. The tories see this is as an easy way to create a one-party state instead of through violent and bloody revolution.

Tom

Tom
You talk a lot of sense but IMO destroy any real impact with the "tory scum" comment. Yes the Attlee government initiated all sorts of social improvement schemes, from Butler Act of 44 ( or there abouts) to the founding of NHS...but they paid scant regard for country economically and set in action economic decline lasting into the 70,s. You see our re energence as an economic power related to eu, I see it as Thatcherism. Yes in some ways a terrible priminister, but in others incredible. We need policies of both Attlee and Thatcher, we,d be nowhere without either. That's the irony with politics.