am I really the only one here that's read Macbeth, hamlet? do you really think populist psychopaths who manipulate others and renege on promises wouldn't do the same to you? see the FTA go the same way as the wall as trump knows brexit uk isn't viable
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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I agree, but those are historical events, the most recent of which you quote is over 30 years ago, or a generation. The mob violence in the USA at the moment involves innocent shop keepers having their businesses harmed, cars set on fire. I don't think we would have seen the same from Trump supporters had Hillary Clinton won.
All I am saying is that in recent years the left wing seems ready to turn to violence and criminality if things don't go their way.
derf, you are clever enough to know that all politicians use this tactic. What about Nick Clegg from the Liberal Democrats and his pledge not to introduce tuition fees? It's the way of the world and you can't pin this type of behaviour exclusively on Donald Trump or any other right leaning politician. It is unacceptable, I agree, but it is not the exclusive preserve of the right.
Nice try tillson, predictable, and getting rather corny, but nevertheless a nice try.
Now all you have to do is convince others equally as easily taken in as you are!
Why are you so keen on seeing the end of the EU?
What is in it for you?
What's your motive, and don't try and kid me with more right wing propaganda, lets have a little truth just this once.
I think the EU is failing and in particular the currency is failing. There is unrest amongst the population over a number of issues and I think there will be a massive financial meltdown in the not too distant future. That is going to cause the UK a lot of pain weather we in or out of the EU, but I think of the two situations being out of the EU is the lesser of the two evils.
yup, one difference is that I don't embrace it with quite the kind of enthusiasm trump or brexit supporters do. populist politicians and movements are kept to a much lower standard courtesy of supporters who, as you did a few posts back, are quite so willing to brush blatant lies under the carpet. it's the essence of this kind of populism - letting "charismatic" leaders get away with lies until what? Stalingrad?
I am keen to leave so that I am not associated with speeches like this:
EU Commission President: Trump’s Election Poses Risks for EU-US Relationship
EU Commission President: Trump’s Election Poses Risks for EU-US Relationship
OG, just because my view differs from yours does not mean that I am susceptible to right wing propaganda, any more than you are susceptible to left wing propaganda. I believe that both of us are able to take in information and reach a conclusion. It's just that our conclusions differ. This right wing, "thing" is becoming rather corny and predictable too.
This whole notion that if one reaches conclusion A then this places them on a higher intellectual plain than those who reach conclusion B is as ridiculous as it is inaccurate.
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Hang on a minute your problem is that a lot of the remain voters who are unhappy with Brexit are not left wing are they, especially as many of the are Tory MP's
., and who resorted to lethal violence? Do talk sense, don't distort the truth just to suit your argument.
yeah know I "fully" see where you are coming form: that speech is so much more offensive than trump's about Mexicans, women, the disabled? the word double standards doesn't scratch the surface when it comes to a brexit or trump supporter pretending the eu commissioner's speech was offensive
But you didn't mind what Boris and co said about him previously?
And who wanted him barred from the country.
Why didn't you protest about that?
Funny time to come over all righteous and disdainful now, bit of a grovelling point of view surely?
Very Droll
I quoted the largest examples, but there's nothing historic about right wing enforcement of views by violence, as our anti-terrorism laws and their widespread misuse shows. The frequency of the Metropolitan Police killing often innocent civilians by shooting or direct physical violence is another illustration. And Guantanamo Bay still has it's untried prisoners, often there beyond a decade and shown to be entirely innocent.
It's the right wing who have the organised truly vicious thugs.
Simply because the so called "democratic" system denies them access to the same power of official enforcement that the right wing enjoy, so frustration takes over.
Our "democracies" are enforced when necessary by armies and police forces, and these are structurally and fundamentally very right wing. It is impossible for such forces to be left wing or even politically balanced.
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Really so people who vote willingly to damage their own future are equally bright as those who oppose such change.
Hmm that makes self harm an intelligent act by that logic.
Sorry, not buying that.
But they are not voting to willingly harm themselves, that is just your take on it. They believe, for whatever reason, that their future is best served out of the EU. You must to try and gain the capacity empathise with other people's views.
Cast your mind back right to the start when you were of the opinion Brexit would fail, and I understood the mood of the voters rather better and forecast it would win.
Tell me again, why do you think you empathise more with people than I do when you failed to see what was happening under your nose?
It was self evident that the majority of people were more concerned about immigration than the economy or even their own personal circumstances and prepared to turn a blind eye to the consequences.
Such a frame of mind can only be described as foolish, especially as their angst had been orchestrated and directed against the wrong target by political forces and the media
I knew, and said what was going on and what the result would be
I must say I looked back with regret that I chose pollsters over OG.
I believe that the reason brexit and Trump won is deeply rooted in the way democracy is organized. On the long term, brexit is not what most people in this country want and for that reason, we won't leave or will get back in the EU soon enough.
I believe that the reason brexit and Trump won is deeply rooted in the way democracy is organized. On the long term, brexit is not what most people in this country want and for that reason, we won't leave or will get back in the EU soon enough.
This morning I've been listening to the latest reports on the Northern EU countries view on how to approach Brexit negotiations.
The key countries are unanimous that the integrity of the EU is paramount over UK interests, so they will refuse to make any compromise.
Most importantly the German government has made the final decision that they will accept the economic cost of refusing to negotiate a deal for the UK. This precisely matches what I've been maintaining in this thread, that Germany and its motor industry can easily absorb the loss of trade that can result.
That means it's all over for us, we are condemned to WTO rules for any trade with the EU countries, and that is going to hurt us far, far more than the hurt experienced by any EU country. Each of them only loses one trading partner, us. We lose 27.
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The key countries are unanimous that the integrity of the EU is paramount over UK interests, so they will refuse to make any compromise.
Most importantly the German government has made the final decision that they will accept the economic cost of refusing to negotiate a deal for the UK. This precisely matches what I've been maintaining in this thread, that Germany and its motor industry can easily absorb the loss of trade that can result.
That means it's all over for us, we are condemned to WTO rules for any trade with the EU countries, and that is going to hurt us far, far more than the hurt experienced by any EU country. Each of them only loses one trading partner, us. We lose 27.
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we actually lose 73. All will know that we need them more than they need us.
NAFTA could have been a mitigated solution but with Trump in the white house, that will be over his body or he's lied.
The one thing we can rely on with Donald Trump's many statements is that he will protect US business by trying to bring back all types of trade as far as possible.
That inherently means no increases in importing goods and services. It follows that the USA isn't going to help us compensate for our loss of EU exporting by taking more from us.
That leaves just two elements individually large enough to compensate our loss, India and China. With their low cost bases we have no chance.
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