Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

I honestly can't see when Donald Trump is going to sign an FTA with Mrs May.
the risks of brexit still far outweigh potential benefits.

I think we need to let the dust settle after Trump's victory and keep an open mind.

I think the probability is that he will be better for the UK than the outgoing president. Obama stated that the UK would be right at the back of the queue in terms of any trade deals with the USA. I think Trump is more likely to be amenable to trade with the UK than Obama, which has to be good.

I think the prospect of the UK getting priority trade terms is concerning EU leaders. But as I say, let's keep an open mind and see what happens.

I just hope that Trump protesters in the UK do not cause any damage to relationships through acts of violence and criminality.

 

[anotherkiwi]

Is there a war coming?

Just read that out loud to yourself and take the time to digest how ridficulous it sounds. I've just shown it to a few colleagues, most of whom voted remain, and without exception they found hilarity in the pompus tone. A classic Capt Mainwaring.

And then people wonder why a BREXIT vote prevailed.

The English tourists with money come here. They have been doing so since Queen Victoria. At last count 100% were remainers. They don't binge drink and don't run off to McDonalds for "food" and share my views on Benidorm. I feel less lonely in my opinion.

I used to attend club meetings in an English ghetto in the Gers. "Oh you are bi-lingual, how lucky you are! We are going to start language courses soon." Soon always seemed to get pushed back a notch, almost none of them had tried in the four years I was there. Those that did try gave up quickly and continued to live in their little English bubble in the middle of rural France.

Don't worry, in the same town there were Spanish refugees who hadn't learnt a word of French since they fled in the late 1930's.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I think we need to let the dust settle after Trump's victory and keep an open mind.

He is like you, a mystery. I am keeping an open mind.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Donald_Trump#Political_affiliations

Will he change positions again?

 

[tillson]

The English tourists with money come here. They have been doing so since Queen Victoria. At last count 100% were remainers.

I'm sorry, but if you are expecting me to believe that each and every tourist is interviewed and canvassed for their opinion on Brexit, it isn't going to happen. The notion is preposterous.

There exists amongst remainers a desire to portray the average Brexit or Trump voter as a white poorly educated male. This theory is equal in magnitude of inaccuracy to the opinion polls for the last general election, Brexit and more recently the presidential elections in the USA. The problems you face with these stats or opinions are thus;, people who disclose that they are voting for one of the above are immediately vinified, told that they are Intellectually inadequate or branded a racist. The net result is they tell the pollsters one thing, and then do exactly the opposite.

I think if another Brexit vote where to be held today, it would return exactly the same result, if not with a higher percentage voting Brexit.

 

[trex]

I think we need to let the dust settle after Trump's victory and keep an open mind.
.

someone said he may just say 'I won' and run away.

 

[tillson]

He is like you, a mystery.

There is nothing mysterious about me. In keeping with your vignette of a true Brexit voter I'm a simple man.

 

[anotherkiwi]

I'm sorry, but if you are expecting me to believe that each and every tourist is interviewed and canvassed for their opinion on Brexit, it isn't going to happen. The notion is preposterous.

I am of course referring to only the ones I have spoken to. Speaking to English tourists is part of my job...

 

[trex]

...
I think if another Brexit vote where to be held today, it would return exactly the same result, if not with a higher percentage voting Brexit.

Although I think remain would win a second referendum now, I don't think there is any point re-running the referendum until polls clearly show at least 10% lead for remain.
Two year is a long time, I am convinced that public opinion will gradually change over to a reasoned outcome. In the meantime, the issue is much better left to parliament.

 

[oldgroaner]

Is there a war coming?


Just read that out loud to yourself and take the time to digest how ridficulous it sounds. I've just shown it to a few colleagues, most of whom voted remain, and without exception they found hilarity in the pompus tone. A classic Capt Mainwaring.

And then people wonder why a BREXIT vote prevailed.

Apart from wishing to looks silly, was it necessary to make your friends look silly too by asking is there a war coming?
Are they that dense they believe wars are not going on right at this very moment?
As you say, no wonder the Brexit Vote prevailed when people like you and them are utterly and blissfully unaware of the realities of our time and get smug about their ignorance?
And you thinks there is virtue in being that dense?
That attitude isn't funny it's just sad.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think we need to let the dust settle after Trump's victory and keep an open mind.

I think the probability is that he will be better for the UK than the outgoing president. Obama stated that the UK would be right at the back of the queue in terms of any trade deals with the USA. I think Trump is more likely to be amenable to trade with the UK than Obama, which has to be good.

I think the prospect of the UK getting priority trade terms is concerning EU leaders. But as I say, let's keep an open mind and see what happens.

I just hope that Trump protesters in the UK do not cause any damage to relationships through acts of violence and criminality.

What are we going to sell them they haven't already got an excess of that the EU can't supply cheaper?

 

[tillson]

Apart from wishing to looks silly, was it necessary to make your friends look silly too by asking is there a war coming?
Are they that dense they believe wars are not going on right at this very moment?
As you say, no wonder the Brexit Vote prevailed when people like you and them are utterly and blissfully unaware of the realities of our time and get smug about their ignorance?
And you thinks there is virtue in being that dense?

The war coming bit wasn't intended for this thread. It was in my cut & paste from something I was sending to someone else. I didn't realise it was there until you pointed it out. Soz.

 

[oldgroaner]

The war coming bit wasn't intended for this thread. It was in my cut & paste from something I was sending to someone else. I didn't realise it was there until you pointed it out. Soz.

Never mind, as they say, let's press on rewardless!

 

[tillson]

I don't think there is any point re-running the referendum until polls clearly show at least 10% lead for remain.

I think that the only certainty with the polls is that they re-define the term useless.

 

[tillson]

What are we going to sell them they haven't already got an excess of that the EU can't supply cheaper?

Chin up. That's the spirit.

 

[oldgroaner]

Chin up. That's the spirit.

Sorry fresh out of those, will "stiff upper lips" do instead, or perhaps " close your eyes and think of England?
Very popular with brexit voters I believe[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldgroaner]

I note the same pattern of broken right wing promises applies over the pond as it did here after the Brexit vote.
First "U" turn by Trump over Obamacare, watch all the other promises go the same way as the promises made here by Boris and Co.

 

[oldtom]

I think some readers could do with acquiring a better balanced selection of news material than simply the mainstream stuff aimed at simpletons.

Here's an example of a different take on events from a source with a minority audience who can say what he wants without fear of losing his well-paid job if he doesn't toe the party line. It doesn't matter if you disagree with his views; the fact that there is an alternative viewpoint to that which the major propaganda organs present is a valuable resource in broadening our understanding of events.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2016/11/11/mr-smith-may-not-have-expected-parallels-with-hitler-and-nazism-but-some-of-us-saw-this-coming/

Tom

 

[tillson]

I note the same pattern of broken right wing promises applies over the pond as it did here after the Brexit vote.
First "U" turn by Trump over Obamacare, watch all the other promises go the same way as the promises made here by Boris and Co.

I think this is true, but not entirely un-expected. I never supposed that the wall would be built, or that the Obama care would be totally dismantled. Is it a good thing that these two pledges won't happen? I think it probably is, so nothing to whinge about. I don't think that there will be too many Trump voters who will be disappointed either.

The only negative thing that I have seen to come out of the US presidential election was so far is the disgusting display of anti democratic violence and lawlessness perpetrated by the left-wing opponents of Trump. Trying to overturn democracy through violence seems to be a common thread of the left-wing both in America and here over Brexit.

I think it highly likely that when Farage organisers his protest in London In the near future that it will be a peaceful affair with demonstrators making their point in a dignified fashion.

What we are seeing in America from the anti-Trump lobby is totally unacceptable in modern society.

 

[tillson]

I see that the EU has issued a warning to Mrs May over trade with the United States.

From a declaration of wanting to get in early to negotiate with Trump earlier this week, a little bit of panic now seems to be settling in within the EU. This seems especially so now that the realisation is dawning that Trump is a Brexit supporter and the UK are likely to have an enhanced relationship with the US a in the immediate future years.

Also, what we have seen happen in America is ringing alarm bells within the EU because I believe people in European countries will be gaining a strength and resolve from Brexit and the US elections. This will increase the likelihood that they too will want to kick the EU into touch via heir own referendums. The first sign of this is the euro, which has started to weaken this week.

 

[flecc]

Trying to overturn democracy through violence seems to be a common thread of the left-wing both in America and here over Brexit.

Exactly the same violence that the right wing use to enforce their views.

The only difference is that theirs is "official", labelled police and army and secret services.

Orgreave? Churchill having our troops fire on civilians? They are the same violence, officially organised,
,