Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

In your opinion. Which does not make it fact.



I love how the phrase, "advisory only" was only conceived post referendum. This reminds me of playing Monopoly with my sister as a child. She would fabricate new rules in order to stave off bankruptcy.

As usual you are ignoring the truth as the parliamentary bill introducing the referendum specifically described it as advisory only.
So you didn't check like a lot more did you?
Tell me, which part of that fact are you still determined to refuse to understand ?
And the icing on the cake if that the author of the bill was none other than Davis[emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Marmite. Produced in the UK. Labour is now cheaper in the UK. The bulk of the raw material comes from within the UK. Packaging comes from?

That does not add up to a 14% rise. Greed = 14% rise.

all that makes sense, but I'm afraid just shows a lack of understanding of how the global market works.

It might all be made and packaged in the UK, it might never leave the UK. But if Tesco's are in the UK and they are buying from Unilever who are a Dutch company and trade in €. The amount that will end up in the Dutch parent company from UK sales is less. So they have to put their prices up otherwise they will not be covering their costs, because they will be getting less € for the sales they are making.

its all about where the money comes from and goes to. Not really much to do with actual product I'm afraid.

(ooops - just realised Kudos just explained this to you aswell. ) sorry for duplication

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

thoughts on this one?

http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presenters/james-obrien/repentant-leave-brexit-voter-chokes-up-tear-son/

 

[trex]

apparently, for every remain voter who regrets, 6 brexit voters do.

 

[Kudoscycles]

The opposite is true for companies that earn the majority of their profits in dollars or euros,that is why the Footsie 100 has been climbing whilst the £ has been falling. These larger companies make their money on an international level mainly in US dollars,so when they repatriate those dollars into £ ,they have an 18% increase in their earnings. The F100 seems to have peaked out now the £ has temporarily found a bottom.
KudosDave

 

[trex]

Donald Tusk expressed his view today: it's hard brexit or no brexit at all. He is hoping that before the end of the two year period, the UK is going to call off article 50.

a lot of people do not think that the Pound has found a bottom. This is their analysis: brexit is a shock. We react to that by lowering our prices. As we cannot lower our wages, we have to let the currency take the strain.

brexit simply means higher prices.

 

[trex]

UK faces the possible loss of its reserve currency status if it fails to secure full access to the European single market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/13/standard--poors-warns-on-uk-reserve-currency-status-as-brexit-ha/

if that happens, Mrs May will be a goner.

 

[flecc]

UK faces the possible loss of its reserve currency status if it fails to secure full access to the European single market.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2016/10/13/standard--poors-warns-on-uk-reserve-currency-status-as-brexit-ha/

if that happens, Mrs May will be a goner.

Ravi's assessment shown below is exactly as I warned a long time ago in this thread:

"Individually most of these countries don’t export that much to the UK, and we're seeing a hardening of attitudes,”

We have to have the agreement of all 27 EU countries for whatever we ask for, and most simply need not and will not co-operate. Theresa May is living in a fantasy world as she's soon going to discover.
.

 

[Kudoscycles]

It will be embarrassing if we lose our reserve currency status,we have maintained that since the early 18th century. Even the awful indebted time immediately after WW2 we retained that status.
KudosDave

 

[Timbo]

I've posted on another thread as a Brit living in Euroland who believes himself to be European, but was denied a vote on the issue. It's important that folk realise that we are where we are - bad things may happen during and after Brexit, but, given the hostile and threatening things being said by our European 'friends', worse may be come if we now grovel back. 'They' will know that they then have us exactly where they want us, and, unless someone is very clever and manages to extract rewards for being good boys and girls, they'll administer a good kicking 'pour encourager les autres'. Surely, EU membership should be based on mutual respect and co-operation, not on fear of retribution should you express an opinion or step out of line. It's time to stop the 'what if...?' and '...if only...', and deal with the very ugly face the EU has shown to the UK, to whatever end.

 

[Timbo]

The result of the advisory only referendum proved that people didn't even know what they were voting for,...

It's often stated that those who voted Brexit didn't understand the issues, whereas, by some magic, those who voted Remain, did.

I'm firmly on the fence as a disenfranchised Brit living in Europe, but I worked in Brussels for 12 years in close contact with the EC, and I haven't yet met a Remainer who knew the first thing about Europe or the way it operated. We should all refrain from insulting those with the opposite opinion.

 

[trex]

Timbo, I think OG means some of the brexit voters, not all, but a sufficient percentage, at least 1 in 40, did not see through the lies and exagerations that they know now. It is of course clear to many that brexit means not only leaving the EU but also the Single Market in order to control EU immigration. However, not many would expect inflation to hit us so soon and that brexit could cause the Pound to lose its reserve currency status when we are out of the Single Market. Already S&P knocked two notches off our triple A credit rating after the referendum and may soon downgrade it even more. You just watch the BoE buying £10 billion of commercial bonds in recent weeks to support jobs. It's a new and concerning development. We run a sky high current account deficit, we need the kindness of strangers to keep going through the next few years. It's not the time for gung ho attitude and sabre rattling. The risk of a run on the Pound is very real.

 

[oldgroaner]

It's often stated that those who voted Brexit didn't understand the issues, whereas, by some magic, those who voted Remain, did.

I'm firmly on the fence as a disenfranchised Brit living in Europe, but I worked in Brussels for 12 years in close contact with the EC, and I haven't yet met a Remainer who knew the first thing about Europe or the way it operated. We should all refrain from insulting those with the opposite opinion.

Tell me, where did I state that those who voted for remain necessarily did understand the issues? you have made a big assumption there, haven't you?
The point I was making was that ignorance of the way that the EU and it's Parliament is rife, and while this is relatively harmless in a situation where there is an on going working situation and things are working smoothly it is highly dangerous when it comes to making arbitrary decisions to jump ship.
The lack of understanding extends to the lies told to the public over the Actions of our own Government and press to the extent of blame attributed to the EU and distortions of the truth as you can read here
http://blogs.ec.europa.eu/ECintheUK/euromyths-a-z-index/
Where just about every law agreed by the UK Government with the EU has been lied about, blamed or distorted for over a generation.
Tell me, do you really know what has been done in this respect in this country never mind in the EU?
Boris Johnson for instance was responsible for the nonsense about "Bent Bananas" when he was a newspaper hack.
Then we come to the referendum itself, written by Davis and containing the words "Advisory Only" which while not broadcast to the population, there for all to read.
The ignorance was there on both sides, but became dangerous when making a fundamental change based on it.
Nothing Magic on the side of the remainers, just common sense.
It is not insulting to tell the truth, it is highly dangerous to gamble with the Nations future when you don't understand the issues, have no plan and just rely on hope.

 

[oldgroaner]

I've posted on another thread as a Brit living in Euroland who believes himself to be European, but was denied a vote on the issue. It's important that folk realise that we are where we are - bad things may happen during and after Brexit, but, given the hostile and threatening things being said by our European 'friends', worse may be come if we now grovel back. 'They' will know that they then have us exactly where they want us, and, unless someone is very clever and manages to extract rewards for being good boys and girls, they'll administer a good kicking 'pour encourager les autres'. Surely, EU membership should be based on mutual respect and co-operation, not on fear of retribution should you express an opinion or step out of line. It's time to stop the 'what if...?' and '...if only...', and deal with the very ugly face the EU has shown to the UK, to whatever end.

They already know they have the upper hand, they would have to be thick not to realise that, and lets face it, if you bother to read the UK Express, Daily Mail and Telegraph, we are not doing ourselves any favours on the winning friends and influencing people front, with papers that read like a modern version of "Der Sturmer" are we?
The EU has shown us an ugly face?
They have shown a stern and grim one and acted as you would expect when given the slap in the face we delivered to former friends, and we have shown them the face of one of these Maniac Horror Clowns the papers seem to dote on, and the papers continue their barrage of anti EU bile.
We need to modify our stance, the EU sees no need whatever to modify theirs.

 

[derf]

I've posted on another thread as a Brit living in Euroland who believes himself to be European, but was denied a vote on the issue. It's important that folk realise that we are where we are - bad things may happen during and after Brexit, but, given the hostile and threatening things being said by our European 'friends', worse may be come if we now grovel back. 'They' will know that they then have us exactly where they want us, and, unless someone is very clever and manages to extract rewards for being good boys and girls, they'll administer a good kicking 'pour encourager les autres'. Surely, EU membership should be based on mutual respect and co-operation, not on fear of retribution should you express an opinion or step out of line. It's time to stop the 'what if...?' and '...if only...', and deal with the very ugly face the EU has shown to the UK, to whatever end.

I don't think it's this personal. We're all adults. Brexit does not work as a business model, and the masses who voted for it is finally beginning to recognise this as international investors give them a message they seem to be able to digest. the personal narrative (a la boris and "the eu is robbing us" or more recently "we must sanction marmite" is opium for the masses, the kind of BS populists use to stir up xenophobia. There is the matter of ugly resurgent racism across europe, farage, le pen etc. I'm all with the EU in fighting this, by nay means, whatever it takes.

 

[flecc]

It's often stated that those who voted Brexit didn't understand the issues, whereas, by some magic, those who voted Remain, did.

I'm firmly on the fence as a disenfranchised Brit living in Europe, but I worked in Brussels for 12 years in close contact with the EC, and I haven't yet met a Remainer who knew the first thing about Europe or the way it operated. We should all refrain from insulting those with the opposite opinion.

The issue of understanding wasn't about how the EU worked, it was about the EU's influences on the UK, positive and negative.

It was clear that a high proportion of Brexiters didn't understand all the aspects of loss if we left and didn't adequately understand the costs and benefits of membership.

It was equally clear that a high proportion of Remainers did understand those issues far better.

If you read through the earlier pages of this thread from before the vote, you'll see clear evidence of that.
.

 

[derf]

The issue of understanding wasn't about how the EU worked, it was about the EU's influences on the UK, positive and negative.

It was clear that a high proportion of Brexiters didn't understand all the aspects of loss if we left and didn't adequately understand the costs and benefits of membership.

It was equally clear that a high proportion of Remainers did understand those issue far better.

If you read through the earlier pages of this thread from before the vote, you'll see clear evidence of that.
.

a life coach might say it's been a "transformational experience". I've come away disliking the Tories much, much, much more (for every self serving political expedience to resolve their internal divisions and not caring at all how disastrously much it damages the country or the poor). Boris' disingenuous posturing is becoming nothing compared to May's. However, I've also come away not trusting direct democracy at all and with a seriously growing fondness for international markets and investors (as what seems the only bastion of genuine institutional democracy left), which is all kind of weird.

 

[oldgroaner]

I lost faith in rule from Westminster years ago, the whole lot of them fail to meet even minimal standard's of competence and honesty.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Kudoscycles]

Liam Fox was on the news saying that after Article 50 is triggered he can quickly proceed with a free trade deal with China.
Is Fox stupid or naive?
I am sure most of us realise that there are currently import duties plus anti-dumping duties from China to the EU. These duties are there to protect EU manufacturers from 'dumping' by chinese producers,in reality they are protectionism to stop cheap chinese products destroying our less competitive industries. They were principally invented by the Germans but we also by being an EU member enjoy that protection.
By way of example the total duty on bicycles is 68%,the duty on electric bikes is only 6%?????strange,but that is how it is.
If we strike a free trade deal with China and the EU let us continue with free trade access to the EU single market,then we could buy bikes from China(as low as 50 dollars cost)and do serious damage to the German/Dutch/Spanish cycle industry.
The EU are not stupid,if we strike a free trade deal with China they will immediately consider the UK as a satellite of China and impose the same tariffs that currently exist between China to EU onto UK to EU.
That will hurt not only goods that source from China but goods which are made in the UK,Pashley and Brompton cycles will be badly affected.
The effect will be that the EU will be a difficult region to trade with and most companies far from being outward looking will look towards the home market,revenues/profits will reduce because the chinese imports will make us much more domestically competitive.
Cars assembled in China will have free access to the UK so Nissan and Honda will have no point assembling in the UK,Ford has one of the largest car assembly plants in Nanjing,they already have purpose built ships to ship Ford cars over the world,shipping tariff free into the UK would be so simple for them.
It will make Dover the smuggling capital of the world,especially if the pound/euro remains depressed.
This deal they propose for Northern Ireland would be a problem,if they have no border between N.I. and Ireland and controls as though it were one country then N.I. residents are going to be fed up that they are subject to EU import tariffs yet as part of the UK they should enjoy tariff free access to China like England and Wales,Scotland will be in a similar position if it becomes independent of the UK,that will be a real mess.
For those who think the foregoing is sour grapes on my part,I buy from over 130 companies in China,such a deal would be wonderful business for me,some of my chinese suppliers are already suggesting products that would be good sellers in the UK if we could avoid the anti-dumping duty,my business would be the perfect conduit for such trade but it would do serious damage to what is left of our manufacturing industry.
I hope Liam Fox understands the implications of a free trade deal with China!!!!
KudosDave

 

[shemozzle999]

Waiting to buy VAT free goods from the EC when we are outside the EU.