Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

Theresa May had an easy ride to date but she had to concede some of her power today by U turn on allowing parliament to decide on the terms of negotiations before triggering Article 50.
Today the legal challenge starts that will stop her using the royal prerogative to trigger Article 50.
May is being challenged 170 questions today,one of those will be whether she is intending to leave the single market.
Note the pound is connected to whatever May says,she looks like she cannot be allowed to destroy our country without parliament scrutiny and even on the whiff of not leaving the single market the pound went north today.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

Where are all the Leavers who used to contribute to this thread,its a bit one sided at present,have they accepted that we will Leave but on such soft terms as to almost remain??????
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Where are all the Leavers who used to contribute to this thread,its a bit one sided at present,have they accepted that we will Leave but on such soft terms as to almost remain??????
KudosDave

They are all sitting back confidently waiting for the goodness to flow, naturally[emoji1]
(And learning Mandarin in their spare time)
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[flecc]

Where are all the Leavers who used to contribute to this thread,its a bit one sided at present,have they accepted that we will Leave but on such soft terms as to almost remain??????
KudosDave

For some of them there's so many negative long term indicators now that they are keeping below the parapet.

The remainder are those who are believing every word from Teresa May and think we are definitely going for hard Brexit, leaving nothing to discuss.
.

 

[trex]

Mrs May dismissed Corbyn's claim of 'shambolic brexit' at PMQ.

Pound plunges again, just now.

 

[Kudoscycles]

May and Davis are determined not to give a straight answer as to whether we will seek to remain in the single market,despite staying in the single market was a manifesto pledge before the referendum
May keeps on saying 'we must abide by the will of the people'.....well the people voted on leaving the EU but staying in the single market...so deliver.
Kudos Dave

 

[oldgroaner]

May and Davis are determined not to give a straight answer as to whether we will seek to remain in the single market,despite staying in the single market was a manifesto pledge before the referendum
May keeps on saying 'we must abide by the will of the people'.....well the people voted on leaving the EU but staying in the single market...so deliver.
Kudos Dave

For the life of me ,I fail to understand why do we have to abide by the will of the people on an advisory only referendum? With only a 4% majority in favour, based on a pack of lies?
When all the evidence points to it being a stupid idea.
Who are the politicians working for, and why?
It's as if aliens have replaced them with clones.

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[anotherkiwi]

Who are the politicians working for, and why?

The multi-billion £ question...

And we all have a hunch who will make a lot of money from all this don't we.

 

[trex]

It's as if aliens have replaced them with clones.

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the conservative party taken over by the brexit revolution army?

 

[flecc]

Who are the politicians working for, and why?

As I often point out, those going into politics do so for power. Never take any notice of them saying they want to do good, help others, work for the community etc. They do mean those things, but they are secondary to their fundamental desire for the power necessary to do those things.

Hence the answer to "Who are politicians working for?" is themselves.

In Theresa May's case, the maximum power as a Prime Minister comes from being in sole charge of a country, not sharing the control with a larger more powerful body.

So Brexit serves that fundamental desire well, and hard Brexit best of all.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

As I often point out, those going into politics do so for power. Never take any notice of them saying they want to do good, help others, work for the community etc. They do mean those things, but they are secondary to their fundamental desire for the power necessary to do those things.

Hence the answer to "Who are politians working for?" is themselves.

In Theresa May's case, the maximum power as a Prime Minister comes from being in sole charge of a country, not sharing the control with a larger more powerful body.

So Brexit serves that fundamental desire well, and hard Brexit best of all.
.

Sorry but I don't see her as the Apex predator, who is she serving?
Why and for what agenda?

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[trex]

the FTSE100 usually goes up when the Pound goes down. Today, the Pound lingers around $1.22 while FTSE100 dropped 0.66%. It seems to me that professional investors with political connections start selling stock and buy back Sterling. I am not saying she is in the middle of it though.

 

[flecc]

Sorry but I don't see her as the Apex predator, who is she serving?
Why and for what agenda?

I think she's become that by default. It wouldn't have been her intention, but finding herself as PM has brought that result.

Make no mistake, this is Thatcher mark 2. She's not serving anyone but herself or listening to anyone but herself.
.
.

 

[tillson]

Where are all the Leavers who used to contribute to this thread,its a bit one sided at present,have they accepted that we will Leave but on such soft terms as to almost remain??????
KudosDave

I suspect that like me, they can't see any point in continuing to contribute to the thread. The remain supports firmly believe in their decision and the leave supporters believe equally in their decision. No amount of discussion will change anyone's view and all that needs to be said has been spoken.

I honestly don't know how the referendum result will play out, but I do know that the whole EU, BREXIT, Remain situation has the potential to turn very nasty in the coming months / years. Our politicians have done what they do best, make a "Right Royal F*!K Up."

Having held the vote, there is now no way out. If there was never any intention to leave the EU, then they should have come clean and said so in the beginning. Political parties should have campaigned in the last General Election on their EU stance. In this respect, only UKIP have been honest about what they stand for and what they represent.

No matter what the perceived negative consequences of leaving the EU are, the negative consequences of not leaving are now equal. People have been dissatisfied with the EU for very many years. They have finally been asked to vote on our future membership, they have voted, a decision has been made. Just hoping that people will forget that and get bored whilst the government quietly ignores the result is not going to happen.

If the result is ignored, the political party / parties presiding over that decision will be finished for decades. This will leave a vacuum ripe for an alternative party to fill and blame everything on our failure to leave the EU and consequently control immigration. People will drink this up and it will feed a deep sense of resentment and a feeling of being cheated. They simply won't get away with anything other than a clean break from the EU.

I think the UK is now on the brink of a constitutional crisis, because I don't think May has any intention of leaving the EU. She is trying to build a bunker to shield herself from the $h!t storm which is coming, but I think it will be so ferocious that she won't survive. I honestly don't know where all this is going to end.

 

[oldgroaner]

I suspect that like me, they can't see any point in continuing to contribute to the thread. The remain supports firmly believe in their decision and the leave supporters believe equally in their decision. No amount of discussion will change anyone's view and all that needs to be said has been spoken.

I honestly don't know how the referendum result will play out, but I do know that the whole EU, BREXIT, Remain situation has the potential to turn very nasty in the coming months / years. Our politicians have done what they do best, make a "Right Royal F*!K Up."

Having held the vote, there is now no way out. If there was never any intention to leave the EU, then they should have come clean and said so in the beginning. Political parties should have campaigned in the last General Election on their EU stance. In this respect, only UKIP have been honest about what they stand for and what they represent.

No matter what the perceived negative consequences of leaving the EU are, the negative consequences of not leaving are now equal. People have been dissatisfied with the EU for very many years. They have finally been asked to vote on our future membership, they have voted, a decision has been made. Just hoping that people will forget that and get bored whilst the government quietly ignores the result is not going to happen.

If the result is ignored, the political party / parties presiding over that decision will be finished for decades. This will leave a vacuum ripe for an alternative party to fill and blame everything on our failure to leave the EU and consequently control immigration. People will drink this up and it will feed a deep sense of resentment and a feeling of being cheated. They simply won't get away with anything other than a clean break from the EU.

I think the UK is now on the brink of a constitutional crisis, because I don't think May has any intention of leaving the EU. She is trying to build a bunker to shield herself from the $h!t storm which is coming, but I think it will be so ferocious that she won't survive. I honestly don't know where all this is going to end.

For someone who said everything has already been said, or words to that effect you still found many more, and quite prophetic words too!
Yes indeed we are on roll into disaster, but remember who created the problem!
It wasn't the remain side, was it?
And when the proverbial hits the fan, do you imagine for a single moment that the 48% that voted for remain are going to be any more forgiving or forgetful than the brexit voters?
Sheer fantasy!

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[oldgroaner]

There is only one way out of this
Dilemma.
If we can establish that article 50 can be a reversible process we should invoke it and seek what terms we can get.
Then we should have another legally binding referendum with a 60% caveat on the number voting to decide leave or stay.

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[Kudoscycles]

I think many of us Remainers still have a desire to see this whole Brexit experiment dumped but we are trying to accept the majority decision,albeit it was hardly a landslide mandate.
To this end we see Brexit to be return of sovereignty,some restriction of immigration and most important retention of the single market/bank passporting....the EU has made it clear we are not going to get those ideals so some big compromises are going to be needed,but whatever the direction of the compromises it's going to upset some of the U.K. Electorate,the end result could upset everyone,especially if Brexit makes the poor much poorer,I don't see any way it's going to make the poor richer.
The government should engage parliament before triggering Article 50 but May is worried that as she is now 'Mrs Brexit',if she fails on Brexit she falls and the 3 Brexiters fail with her. It just concerns me that whatever the obvious damage as a result of Brexit that May will look after her position more so than looking after our country,I sincerely believe that.
KudosDave

 

[tillson]

There is only one way out of this
Dilemma.
If we can establish that article 50 can be a reversible process we should invoke it and seek what terms we can get.
Then we should have another legally binding referendum with a 60% caveat on the number voting to decide leave or stay.

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I think there is another way out. Dissolve parliament and call a general election. Each political party should then nail their colours to the mast and state if they support brexit or remain, pledging to either implement or ignore the referendum.

I think this is the only way to have a shred of hope of resolving this situation with a shred of dignity. Also the only way to move forward without civil unrest and a right wing backlash. But it might already be too late.

 

[oldgroaner]

I think there is another way out. Dissolve parliament and call a general election. Each political party should then nail their colours to the mast and state if they support brexit or remain, pledging to either implement or ignore the referendum.

I think this is the only way to have a shred of hope of resolving this situation with a shred of dignity. Also the only way to move forward without civil unrest and a right wing backlash. But it might already be too late.

But that doesn't answer the problem unless there is a credible opposition.
And a searching inquiry into the truth about how the EU has been presented to the public less the lies, and who told them.
And that isn't going to happen is it?
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[Kudoscycles]

If the poor thought that Brexit was a protest vote against the elite I said soon after that they would regret it.
Big companies can use the opportunity to put up prices,not all justifiable but 'Brexit means Brexit and we are going to make a success of it' .....Unilever is putting up the prices of some popular brands,Marmite,Dove etc by 10%,Premier foods,Oxo,Hovis are increasing by 14%.
Fuel is going up again,natural gas,all inflationary.....interest rate rises will be soon after.
I wonder whether 'man from Hartlepool' accepts all this as a short term downside but it will all be worthwhile in the long term? He will note the upside that it will become so expensive to live in the UK,that EU workers will find a better quality of life back home so the migrant problem will be solved.
KudosDave