Brexit, for once some facts.

[tillson]

The hypocrisy of the tory scum knows no bounds, it seems.

Not long ago, HM Government was not prepared to concede any ground on the Argentinian claim for possession of the Malvinas. Suddenly, we are shaking hands with their senior politicians discussing the very matters that repeatedly ended in impasse due to British intransigence over a bunch of rocks 99.9% of British residents will never visit and most likely couldn't pinpoint on a map.

Why, it can reasonably be asked, do those who live there believe they have the exclusive right to actually be there? This is just imperialism yet those islands provide no benefit to the exchequer and the inbred population may claim British citizenship but they contribute nothing to the public purse.

A great many British and Argentinian lives were lost thanks to a fascist tory government, led by a megalomaniac who would not have dared (and did not dare) to challenge the Chinese over our 'ownership' of Hong Kong. Even today, we continue to proclaim that Gibraltar is British territory when the world knows it is part of Spain.

This current government is prepared to sacrifice the union with Scotland and possibly NI, as well as Gibraltar, in order to satisfy the lunatic right-wing fringe of their party and the assorted racists, fascists, anarchists and rent-a-mob demonstrators who take advantage of free speech to preach their hatred of all things foreign. Meanwhile, the country is slowly sliding down the slope to hell, the government-controlled media trying to put spin on every news item, hoping for a miracle that might stop the inexorable complete failure of the British economy and way of life.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-latin-america-37362973

Tom

The Falkland Islands are British. The residents, who you so readily insult want to remain British, so that is what will happen.

Have you ever met any residents of the Falkland Islands? Or is your assumption about them based on little or no fact? Oh, hang on a minute, isn't an assumption based on little or no fact actually the definition of prejudice? Your rank hypocrisy knows no bounds. You really are a piece of work.

 

[oldgroaner]

First of all, I am not misquoting statistics. Those numbers that I quoted are the official results of the 2015 general election. So, my first question to you is prove that those statistics are wrong and that I have misquoted them. Otherwise apologise.

Like any other political party in the UK, the SNP could I have fielded a candid it in any constituency in the UK. The fact that they didn't is their business.

The fact remains that the SNP polled less votes in the United Kingdom General Election than UKIP, the liberal democrat's, and the Green Party, but had a perversely larger number of MPs in the United Kingdom Parliament as a result. That it's plain wrong.

The referendum was a different type of election. More akin to proportional representation. The result of that vote was that the United Kingdom should leave the European Union. And that is what will happen.

Although I can't quite believe the perverseness of it, I think you are saying that we should not be allowed to leave the European Union because the majority of European members (other countries included) when taken as a whole, would rather us not do that. That is the most mental thing I have heard so far today but the day is still young, so I don't even think it warrants a reply.

If the United Kingdom wants to leave the European union, it's out productive. There is a mechanism for doing so and that mechanism needs to be initiated immediately.

So, no irony in any of this, and it simply remains for you to disprove the statistics which I have quoted. A good place to start is with typing "UK General Election Results" into Google. Read it and weep.

Perhaps it is pertinent to remind you of the different population sizes of Scotland and the rest of the UK.
Your favourite Scottish woman would still have won under proportional representation, surely, but full marks for the spin, the figures you quoted are correct, but don't tell the full story, of what happened in Scotland do they?
And once again the referendum is advisory only. Parliament has the right and authority to either comply or not as they deem in the best interests of the Nation, otherwise why bother having a Government at all?

 

[tillson]

Perhaps it is pertinent to remind you of the different population sizes of Scotland and the rest of the UK.
Your favourite Scottish woman would still have won under proportional representation, surely, but full marks for the spin, the figures you quoted are correct, but don't tell the full story, of what happened in Scotland do they?
And once again the referendum is advisory only. Parliament has the right and authority to either comply or not as they deem in the best interests of the Nation, otherwise why bother having a Government at all?

There is no spin OG. It was the UK General Election. An election for the whole population of the United Kingdom. The Tiny Idiot Scottish Woman's part received fractionally more support (less than 1%) than the Green Party, yet has 55 times more MPs in Westminster.

The SNP and its policies are not popular in the United Kingdom. That is proven by the election result. It is therefore a disgrace that they have so many MPs and so much influence.

Large numbers of people are sickened by this, they are angry and they are frustrated. The more they are told that they a wrong and that the situation is a fair one the angrier they get.

Let parliament ignore the BREXIT vote and say it was only advisory. Go right ahead. In a way, I hope they do because there will be a heavy price to pay and we will get the leaders that we need to clean up the mess that we are in.

When someone is carrying The Tiny Idiot Scottish Woman home in a bucket one day (metaphorically speaking) it will be as a consequence of arrogance and disregard for democracy on a scale that I had always considered to be unthinkable. And you and D8ve and the others are partly responsible.

 

[oldgroaner]

There is no spin OG. It was the UK General Election. An election for the whole population of the United Kingdom. The Tiny Idiot Scottish Woman's part received fractionally more support (less than 1%) than the Green Party, yet has 55 times more MPs in Westminster.

The SNP and its policies are not popular in the United Kingdom. That is proven by the election result. It is therefore a disgrace that they have so many MPs and so much influence.

Large numbers of people are sickened by this, they are angry and they are frustrated. The more they are told that they a wrong and that the situation is a fair one the angrier they get.

Let parliament ignore the BREXIT vote and say it was only advisory. Go right ahead. In a way, I hope they do because there will be a heavy price to pay and we will get the leaders that we need to clean up the mess that we are in.

When someone is carrying The Tiny Idiot Scottish Woman home in a bucket one day (metaphorically speaking) it will be as a consequence of arrogance and disregard for democracy on a scale that I had always considered to be unthinkable. And you and D8ve and the others are partly responsible.

Very Droll tillson, forgetting conveniently as usual that there is no way that the idea of proportional representation based on whole of the UK would have been acceptable to the Scottish voters, when they are expecting to have candidates of their own choosing, for a devolved Parliament.

If you wanted to push them into demanding Independence I congratulate you on finding the one thing guaranteed to do just that.

Masterful as usual, you never disappoint!
I am partly responsible for a disregard for Democracy? you flatter me!
Here I am asking that the duly elected parliament is allowed to carry out it's sworn duty, and also I might add pushing for article 50 to be activated to ensure this mad experiment you have set in motion is allowed to run it's course for good or ill, and that constitutes a "disregard for democracy on a scale that I had always considered to be unthinkable. And you and D8ve and the others are partly responsible."
My goodness, you are indeed a hard man to please!
If I may borrow one of your fine phrases (with a little addition of my own)

I hope they do invoke Article 50 because there will be a heavy price to pay and we will get the leaders that we need to clean up the mess that we are in.
And by the way denying Parliament the right to vote on Brexit is completely Undemocratic by any measure.
As the saying goes, "Doesn't that just sing?"

 

[oldgroaner]

Great news (For China anyway)
Hinkley Point nuclear power station will go ahead, Government confirms.
What happened to getting our country back, was that so we could give it to the Chinese?

And Understatement of the day from Farage
Nigel Farage says pledges made by Brexit campaigners were ‘mildly irresponsible’

As in the mayor of Sodom's decision to be twinned with Gomorrah? yes indeed!

 

[tillson]

Great news (For China anyway)
Hinkley Point nuclear power station will go ahead, Government confirms.
What happened to getting our country back, was that so we could give it to the Chinese?

Keep going Mrs May, you are doing a fine job. She's got an open goal, all she needs to do now is ignore the BREXIT vote and its in the back of the net. Radical change of government at the next general election! In the long term, this could be good.

I think Merkel is going to pay the price next year. Her ass is toast because she is ignoring the German people's wishes. Could be interesting.

 

[oldgroaner]

Keep going Mrs May, you are doing a fine job. She's got an open goal, all she needs to do now is ignore the BREXIT vote and its in the back of the net. Radical change of government at the next general election!

Excellent tillson! Excellent! something we can agree on!
But I am tempted to add that Government by Referendum is already pretty radical

 

[tillson]

I see Juncker took to Twitter yesterday in order to, "get in touch with the people of the EU." #askjuncker.

I think the message from the EU populous was clear in that they thought he was an arse-hole and that very few want him or his EU army.

Not having heard what he wanted to hear on Twitter yesterday, today he will try his luck on YouTube. I expect the same message to be delivered.

The forthcoming elections in Germany, France, Holland and Italy are going to be very interesting. So will ours in just under 4 years when May has failed to deliver on BREXIT.

 

[shemozzle999]

The forthcoming elections in Germany, France, Holland and Italy are going to be very interesting. So will ours in just under 4 years when May has failed to deliver on BREXIT.

As will next weeks heads of state meeting.

Yep Juncker now needs an army and an EU youth movement to keep the EU safe - now where have I heard that before?

He even wants a Political Commission now and mentioned a "cratic" word in his speech - must have been reading Mrs May's speech.

 

[tillson]

As will next weeks heads of state meeting.

Yep Juncker now needs an army and an EU youth movement to keep the EU safe - now where have I heard that before?

He even wants a Political Commission now and mentioned a "cratic" word in his speech - must have been reading Mrs May's speech.

This is all very encouraging news which I am sure will accelerate the demise of the EU.

Keep fanning the flames with talk of non binding referendums. It's going to be a great firework display when this lot goes up.

 

[flecc]

The forthcoming elections in Germany, France, Holland and Italy are going to be very interesting. So will ours in just under 4 years when May has failed to deliver on BREXIT.

I don't see big changes next year, Merkel will be returned to power and the most likely change will be Alain Juppé elected in France.

While I agree on the public view of Theresa May's record at the time of the next general election, what Brexiting alternative will there be? I don't see UKIP ever gaining overall power in this country and no other party is pro Brexit.

And there's also the public boredom factor. Most are already sick of the subject and after four more years of reporting the "progress" of Brexit the population will probably be turned right off the subject and ready to forget all about it.
.

 

[tillson]

I don't see big changes next year, Merkel will be returned to power and the most likely change will be Alain Juppé elected in France.

While I agree on the public view of Theresa May's record at the time of the next general election, what Brexiting alternative will there be? I don't see UKIP ever gaining overall power in this country and no other party is pro Brexit.

And there's also the public boredom factor. Most are already sick of the subject and after four more years of reporting the "progress" of Brexit the population will probably be turned right off the subject and ready to forget all about it.
.

The public's interest in BREXIT may wain over the next 3 or 4 years, but it will never go away. Dissatisfaction with the EU has been present for over a decade. People are not simply going to forget and accept if the referendum is ignored.

52% of the electorate are going to be feeling angry and vengeful at the next general election because they have been ignored. Technicalities such as a referendum only being advisory won't wash. It will be simplicity itself to re-ignite the anger and vengeance within the 52% who have been betrayed and they will be highly motivated to make changes. A few simple reminders will whip up a frenzy.

UKIP or something else (don't rule out Farage returning if the referendum is ignored) will be the focus for the betrayed motivated and very angry 52%.

This is far from over and I think that May is making all the right moves to cause a very big and exciting bang.

I think Merkel is in serious trouble. Speaking with lots of Germans in Croatia. Non have a good word, particularly with regard to immigration. She needs to start listening.

 

[trex]

I disagree. The anti-EU propaganda feeds on fear and mistrust. I lived a while in the South West where tourists are called 'grockles' and they don't even have to be foreigners, the sentiments are the same. Politicians like Farage exploit this and the referendum gave a chance to millions of angry voters that traditionally are represented by the opposition parties to vote for brexit because of the absence of a credible leadership in the labour party. They are sold a lose-lose proposition and I guess most don't care about the long term outcome. They won't come out to vote next time.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Tillson, your use of numbers leaves a lot to be desired.

1)

52% of the electorate

Its clearly not 52% of the electorate, is it. So this statement is simply false

Its 52% of those that voted... which is a very different thing. Especially when you consider who wasn't eligable, but will be impacted by the decision.

Just f.y.i

2)

SNP 4.7% of the vote 55 MPs

You can't use / compare 4.7% of the UK vote, when they weren't standing in the vast majority of seats. you're comparing apples and oranges.

You're using numbers, but not using them correctly.

 

[tillson]

Tillson, your use of numbers leaves a lot to be desired.

1)


Its clearly not 52% of the electorate, is it. So this statement is simply false

Its 52% of those that voted... which is a very different thing. Especially when you consider who wasn't eligable, but will be impacted by the decision.

Just f.y.i

2)


You can't use / compare 4.7% of the UK vote, when they weren't standing in the vast majority of seats. you're comparing apples and oranges.

You're using numbers, but not using them correctly.

Your reasoning is so far beyond normality that I fear it is impossible to retrieve you from your twisted world. I don't think that you are in possession of the basics upon which you can start to build an understanding. But that might not be your fault.

Just FYI.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

Your reasoning is so far beyond normality that I fear it is impossible to retrieve you from your twisted world. I don't think that you are in possession of the basics upon which you can start to build an understanding. But that might not be your fault.

Just FYI.

I did statistics at university, and what I've explained is simple fact. Which bit of my explanation of your incorrect use of numbers do you have issue with?

 

[tillson]

I did statistics at university, and what I've explained is simple fact. Which bit of my explanation of your incorrect use of numbers do you have issue with?

So did I and all of it. Wasn't red brick by any chance was it? That would explain a great deal.

 

[shemozzle999]

Someone has suggested the EU way forward may be by creating a modified model of membership akin to concentric rings the further inside the rings the more collaboration, thus allowing room for compromise.

 

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

ok.

So break down for me where I went wrong.

UK electorate for the referendum was: 46,499,537 people.

So 52% of the electorate would be: 24,179,759 people.

(http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/provisional-electorate-figures-published-ahead-of-the-eu-referendum)

Leave vote was 17,410,742

So that works out as 37.44% of the electorate

Which bit of that maths is wrong?

 

[gray198]

ok.

So break down for me where I went wrong.

UK electorate for the referendum was: 46,499,537 people.

So 52% of the electorate would be: 24,179,759 people.

(http://www.electoralcommission.org.uk/i-am-a/journalist/electoral-commission-media-centre/news-releases-referendums/provisional-electorate-figures-published-ahead-of-the-eu-referendum)

Leave vote was 17,410,742

So that works out as 37.44% of the electorate

Which bit of that maths is wrong?

Wasn't it a lower percentage who voted to stay?? And isn't that the purpose of a vote. Not really relevant what percentage of the population voted. We vote our politicians in with a much smaller participation and never question the result.