Brexit, for once some facts.

[KTM Bike Industries UK]

I see the IMF are predicting that the UK economy will grow faster than that of Germany and France over the next two years.

Oh dear you remainers.

Really??.. I got this from my currency broker this morning...

"Bad news for sterling from the International Monetary Fund saw the currency lose the ground it had recouped as the referendum result continued to affect its movements."

I've not looked at the numbers in detail, but everything seems to be down again.

 

[trex]

employment figure shows continued improvement, Mrs May's first PMQ is re-assuring. The Pound gained 0.5 US cent this morning.
I reckon the Pound will recover ever so slightly over the months ahead, so long article 50 is not triggered - possibly ending the year at around $1.35-$1.38. Bike prices will go up by 10%-12% now.

 

[Blew it]

Why would anyone want to attack us with Nuclear Weapons?

RAF Menwith Hill: Co-run with US of A

RAF Mildenhall: Operated and run by USAF

RAF Alconbury: Operated and run by the US of A

RAF Croughton: Operated an run by the US of A

RAF Fairford: Designated NATO forward standby base for USAF

RAF Lakenheath: Operated and run by USAF.

The USAF will shortly vacate some of these bases.

 

[flecc]

RAF Mildenhall: Operated and run by USAF

RAF Alconbury: Operated and run by the US of A

RAF Croughton: Operated an run by the US of A

RAF Fairford: Designated NATO forward standby base for USAF

RAF Lakenheath: Operated and run by USAF.

The USAF will shortly vacate some of these bases.

.
And Brexiteers think leaving the EU will give us sovereignty!
.

 

[oldgroaner]

Nucs are another ball game. They stopped the Japs dead in their tracks and brought an almost immediate end to the fighting, starvation and torture of uk and allied soldiers. They knew another bucket of nuclear sunshine was on the way if they persisted. If the Japs had access to nuclear weapons, then the USA wouldn't have dared to detonated a couple on Jap soil for fear of what would be heading back their way.

Those early chemical & biological WMDs weren't such a deterrent at the start of the war, not like the stuff made at Aldermaston today. If Poland was in possession of such a defence, the Germans would have gone elsewhere, somewhere that didn't.

Nice try, but that's all it is the Japanese actually wanted to continue after the bombs had been dropped but the Emperor was persuaded to sue for peace.
By the way Germany had sophisticated biological weapons throughout the second world war, using your logic it would have loaded them into to V1 and V2 rockets, which using your so called logic, they should have done.

They didn't, just as in August 1918 they called off the incendiary raids, which were intended as a last gasp war winning stroke, even though the Aircraft of the England squadron had 20,000 of the new Elektron Incendiary bombs loaded aboard and were actually waiting to take off.
Ludendorff's Diary gives the reason."The considerable destruction which would have ensued would no longer be enough to influence the course of the war; one could not tolerate carrying out such destruction for its own sake.
By the way the same bombs were used by the Germans in the second world , and by ourselves and the Americans,
Who killed far more Japanese in the fire raids that with the Atomic Bombs, have you conveniently forgotten that?
75,000–200,000 civilian deaths;
Atomic bomb casualties
Dead 66,000
Atomic Bombs have not stopped wars breaking out, nor have they prevented the Nations that have them suffering defeats from conventional forces.
Your argument is not supported by any logical process, it amounts to nothing more than wishful thinking.

 

[oldgroaner]

Yes, they're load of w@nkers down at the old IMF. Oh, hang on a minute, weren't they being taken seriously just a few days ago when they were predicting doom?

I think I'm getting the hang of this now. If an organisation predicts doom, then they are a serious and credible institution. If they are optimistic, then we must disregard them. This rule applies even if a once credible doom monger reviews the situation and then predicts a brighter future. So then that organisation's status will change from credible to untrustworthy.

Got it. Just like there is more to democracy than merely a majority vote.

Well your last line made sense, what went wrong?

 

[oldgroaner]

RAF Menwith Hill: Co-run with US of A

RAF Mildenhall: Operated and run by USAF

RAF Alconbury: Operated and run by the US of A

RAF Croughton: Operated an run by the US of A

RAF Fairford: Designated NATO forward standby base for USAF

RAF Lakenheath: Operated and run by USAF.

The USAF will shortly vacate some of these bases.

Thank you for reinforcing my point!

 

[Kudoscycles]

Sure, the economy will rebound strongly at some stage after brexit. Mrs May has to shoot it in the foot first though.

apparently, remain means remain for Scotland at today's PMQ.

So 'remain means remain'...Nicola Sturgeon better tow the line or the Scots will get fired....oops isnt that what they want,hehe
KudosDave

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Just a reminder. Nuclear weapons could not prevent the great powers being defeated in Vietnam and Afghanistan could they?
Expensive and dangerous toys!



Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

Glad to see Brexit does not have a monopoly on you being opiniatef OG.
UK has enjoyed relative peace for years now. You attribute that to eu unification. I attribute it to our nuclear cabability and nato. Think you,ll find majority support my view, right or wrong makes no difference, democracy puts those in charge with most popular policy on all mentioned.
So , we are leaving eu and investing heavily in next trident. You can try and convince me and everyone else just how clever, valid , informed and knowledgeable your views are but will make absolutely no difference to outcomes for either. Corbyn , who supports tour view, will never be pm.
May said what she did because its what majority of people want to hear, myself included. Saying anything else she might as well just cancel next Trident.
BTW if those bases are being vacated that increases our sovereignty? Besides , the whole point of trident is to have a hard to trace deterent. Air bases don't house submarines ??

 

[Kudoscycles]

Guess who who wrote the following....
But this is all about trade with Europe. What about trade with the rest of the world? It is tempting to look at developing countries’ economies, with their high growth rates, and see them as an alternative to trade with Europe. But just look at the reality of our trading relationship with China – with its dumping policies, protective tariffs and industrial-scale industrial espionage. And look at the figures. We export more to Ireland than we do to China, almost twice as much to Belgium as we do to India, and nearly three times as much to Sweden as we do to Brazil. It is not realistic to think we could just replace European trade with these new markets.

And anyway, this apparent choice is a false dichotomy. We should be aiming to increase our trade with these markets in addition to the business we win in Europe. Given that British exports in goods and services to countries outside the EU are rising, one can hardly argue that the EU prevents this from happening. Leaving the EU, on the other hand, might make it considerably harder. First, we would have to replace 36 existing trade agreements we have with non-EU countries that cover 53 markets. The EU trade deals Britain has been driving – with the US, worth £10 billion per year to the UK, with Japan, worth £5 billion a year to the UK, with Canada, worth £1.3 billion a year to the UK – would be in danger of collapse. And while we could certainly negotiate our own trade agreements, there would be no guarantee that they would be on terms as good as those we enjoy now. There would also be a considerable opportunity cost given the need to replace the existing agreements – not least with the EU itself – that we would have torn up as a consequence of our departure.

 

[oldgroaner]

It seems that no matter how illogical your argument is you will still stick to it, and gloat because it happens to coincide with the majority view.
Strange that you take the view of the Americans leaving their bases as a sign of our sovereignty, yet at the same time speak of being protected by NATO.
So when they have gone, what becomes of this NATO protection you seem so happy about?
Are you going to pay to replace this conventional force with one of our own?
Or trust to trident?
Just how would that protect us from a conventional attack?
Will it frighten Isis if they attack?
And surely the submarines operate out of a base, do they not, and only one is at sea at any given time?
Who protects the others?
Some deterrent more of a risky bait for a first strike attack with conventional forces never mind nuclear ones.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[flecc]

Guess who who wrote the following....
But this is all about trade with Europe. What about trade with the rest of the world? It is tempting to look at developing countries’ economies, with their high growth rates, and see them as an alternative to trade with Europe. But just look at the reality of our trading relationship with China – with its dumping policies, protective tariffs and industrial-scale industrial espionage. And look at the figures. We export more to Ireland than we do to China, almost twice as much to Belgium as we do to India, and nearly three times as much to Sweden as we do to Brazil. It is not realistic to think we could just replace European trade with these new markets.

And anyway, this apparent choice is a false dichotomy. We should be aiming to increase our trade with these markets in addition to the business we win in Europe. Given that British exports in goods and services to countries outside the EU are rising, one can hardly argue that the EU prevents this from happening. Leaving the EU, on the other hand, might make it considerably harder. First, we would have to replace 36 existing trade agreements we have with non-EU countries that cover 53 markets. The EU trade deals Britain has been driving – with the US, worth £10 billion per year to the UK, with Japan, worth £5 billion a year to the UK, with Canada, worth £1.3 billion a year to the UK – would be in danger of collapse. And while we could certainly negotiate our own trade agreements, there would be no guarantee that they would be on terms as good as those we enjoy now. There would also be a considerable opportunity cost given the need to replace the existing agreements – not least with the EU itself – that we would have torn up as a consequence of our departure.

.
That was Theresa May, the full speech is on this link.
.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

.
That was Theresa May, the full speech is on this link.
.
.

What do you expect? honesty? that was before the referendum this is May Mark2 Brexit model and after all, what are a few lies where Brexit is concerned?
Lies are this season's "New Truth"

 

[Kudoscycles]

She should have kept Osborne in the cabinet,he is an expert at U-turns,hehe!
Am watching Yes Minister on the TV,thank goodness real politics is not like that,hehe!
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

"“I want to work with chancellor Merkel and my colleagues around the European council in a constructive spirit to make this a sensible and orderly departure,” she said. “All of us will need time to prepare for these negotiations and the United Kingdom will not invoke article 50 until our objectives are clear."
Who is she referring to with "All of us?"
Excuse me for asking, what is meant by the last five words?
For instance who is the "our" she refers to?
Who's "objectives"?
More to the point she wasn't authorised to do anything of the sort was she?
The vote was to Leave, no if's but's or fancy deals.
In other words she gets a deal she can con the Brexit voters with?
Time to do what was promised invoke Article 50 immediately!
Let the great experiment begin.
Otherwise she is simply proving what I maintained all along, the Brexit voters have been conned, and not a one of the "promises" (if you can call them that)
have come true, have they?
This "Brexit" will be an illusion that even the late great Paul Daniels would be proud of, "the great disappearing decision of the Will of the Voters"
In a sense this is interesting news, it will be great fun watching how the media sell this betrayal to the voters who thought they had imposed their will on the Government.

 

[trex]

I much prefer the Norway model with limited freedom of movement for the next 10-15 years than where we are at the moment and I don't think it's a con.

 

[oldgroaner]

I much prefer the Norway model with limited freedom of movement for the next 10-15 years than where we are at the moment and I don't think it's a con.

Neither in reality do I, I was presenting the point of view likely to be held by the Brexit voters.
This "Fudge" is unlikely to sit well with them, after all they have been made many promises, (or rather were under the impressions they had) and an agreement where we still pay virtually what we do now and in reality gain a lot less will not sit well with them, will it?
And what are the chances of getting "limited Freedom of movement."
if we can get that then why not just stay in?

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Lets just precis your thoughts here OG.

You,me moaned about referendum.
You,ve moaned about Cameron's and Osbournes planning.
You,ve moaned about Johnson and Gove.
You,ve moaned about result and that 48% of population ate not being represented.(1066 and all that rubbish)
You,ve moaned about May now pontificating about carrying an act out you dont want doing.
You,ve moaned about Trident. You,ce moaned about AAF/ RAF air bases for them being here and leaving.
Basically you,ve mpsned continually and now for the umpteenth time reminded us you predicted a win for brexit , sort of backing opposition in a football game. You cant lose.
And the thoughts of many leavers has always been, even if they win country wouldn't leave eu.( I and.other posters said same)
For goodness sake even if you cant find anything constructive to say tell us what you " would like" or positive advice.
You,ve knocked everything but offerered nothing. Its easy to find fault much harder to offer a direction to take.

Had May triggered Article 50 you,d be ranting, if she doesn't you will. If she takes her time and considers our position you would. What do you want her to do. I think she is one brave lady, inheriting the ** Osbourne and Cameron have left. Come on pray tell OG, what do you want her to do.?

 

[trex]

And what are the chances of getting "limited Freedom of movement."
if we can get that then why not just stay in?

I think there is a good chance. It's a red line for the UK so concession will have to be made from both sides.
If you compare the level of adoption of EU made regulations between Norway and the UK, the Norway model offers some flexibility.

 

[oldgroaner]

Lets just ptedis your thoughts here OG.

You,me moaned about referendum.
You,ve moaned about Cameron's and Osbournes planning.
You,ve moaned about Johnson and Gove.
You,ve moaned about result and that 48% of vitebrs ate not being represented.(1066 and all that rubbish)
You,ve moaned about May now pontificating about carrying an act out you dont want doing.
You,ve moaned about Trident. You,ce moaned about AAF/ RAF air bases for them being here and leaving.
Basically you,ve mpsned continually and now for the umpteenth time reminded us you predicted a win for brexit , sort of backing opposition in a football game. You cant lose.
And the concenncus of many leavers has always been, even I they win country wouldn't leave eu.( I and.other posters said same)
For goodness sake even if you cant find anything constructive to say tell us what you " would like" or positive advice.
You,ve knocked everything but offerered nothing. Its easy to find fault much harder to offer a direction to take.

Had May triggered Article 50 you,d be ranting, if she doesn't you will. If she takes her time and considers our position you would. What do you want her to do. I think she is one brave lady, inheriting the ** Osbourne and Cameron have left. Come on pray tell OG, what do you want her to do.?

Tell the TRUTH