No need for blackmail or dirty tricks such as claiming the referendum was flawed. BREXIT has a democracy on its side, which is more than can be said for the remainers.
Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
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I could type an equally long reply, but I'll just cut to the last three words
.......but no cigar.
The referendum wasn't flawed,it's only its power is misunderstood.
No it doesn't ,the power to decide whether we stay or leave lies with our parliament,that is true democracy.
Over the next few months the courts will become increasingly involved in what will become an increasingly complicated constitutional argument.
KudosDave
Holes in my feet Flud? none at all.
Explain in your infinite wisdom the circumstances where May should actually give the order to deploy Trident?
There simply isn't such a scenario is there?
Which means that damn thing is actually simply making us into a target for any enemy who has nuclear weapons.
We can never use them, and everyone is as aware of that just as they were during the last war, with Boltulinum Toxins, Anthrax and Gas.
Only an utter fool believes that this sort of Bluff kids anybody.
If Russia decides to invade us, they will , we will be defeated,as our conventional army is minute, and we will not dare to press the Trident fire button as that would be the last thing we do.
For once think about the consequences.
Who do you think you are kidding?
Explain in your infinite wisdom the circumstances where May should actually give the order to deploy Trident?
There simply isn't such a scenario is there?
Which means that damn thing is actually simply making us into a target for any enemy who has nuclear weapons.
We can never use them, and everyone is as aware of that just as they were during the last war, with Boltulinum Toxins, Anthrax and Gas.
Only an utter fool believes that this sort of Bluff kids anybody.
If Russia decides to invade us, they will , we will be defeated,as our conventional army is minute, and we will not dare to press the Trident fire button as that would be the last thing we do.
For once think about the consequences.
Who do you think you are kidding?
Great attempt at "Spin" when they said Brexit has damaged everybody.
A nonsense scenario and you know it.
If only Poland had had nuclear weapons, perhaps Germany would not have invaded.
If both countries had them they would still have invaded, since the existing WMD's Anthrax, Nerve Gas etc were not employed by either side for fear of reprisal, nuclear weapons would not have been employed either.
"
Amber Rudd and Boris Johnson signal that aim to get net migration to below 100,000 has been abandoned"
Daily Telegraph today. 20/07/2016
That will go down well with many of the Brexit camp , rather in the nature of a lead balloon.
"From the Daily Mail"
Egypt crisis? What Egypt crisis! Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson appears to confuse the African state with Turkey during meeting with US secretary of state John Kerry "
No wonder he fronted the Brexit Campaign, he can plead terminal confusion.
And from the "grate" man himself in the Guardian
"Johnson, holding the press conference in the Foreign Office, said: “We can spend an awfully long time going over lots of stuff that I’ve written over the last 30 years … all of which in my view have been taken out of context, through what alchemy I do not know – somehow misconstrued that it would really take me too long to engage in a full global itinerary of apology to all concerned.”
And this was the liar who warped the Brexit campaign.
Amber Rudd and Boris Johnson signal that aim to get net migration to below 100,000 has been abandoned"
Daily Telegraph today. 20/07/2016
That will go down well with many of the Brexit camp , rather in the nature of a lead balloon.
"From the Daily Mail"
Egypt crisis? What Egypt crisis! Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson appears to confuse the African state with Turkey during meeting with US secretary of state John Kerry "
No wonder he fronted the Brexit Campaign, he can plead terminal confusion.
And from the "grate" man himself in the Guardian
"Johnson, holding the press conference in the Foreign Office, said: “We can spend an awfully long time going over lots of stuff that I’ve written over the last 30 years … all of which in my view have been taken out of context, through what alchemy I do not know – somehow misconstrued that it would really take me too long to engage in a full global itinerary of apology to all concerned.”
And this was the liar who warped the Brexit campaign.
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As a fan of democracy, flawed though it may be, I believe we should have formally implemented the Article 50 measure by now. Until we do, the current uncertainty will continue and government, business and consumers both here and abroad will bury their heads in the sand and simply fail to focus on the important issues which lie ahead.
As a socialist, I believe it is utter stupidity to withdraw from the EU but I must respect the democratic view.
Nonetheless, I am curious to know, given the post-EU referendum discussions in the popular media and the reported numbers who would like to re-run the ballot because they now feel they were not properly informed before the well-advertised exercise, would the 'Leave' camp be happy to do it all again, knowing there is a very good chance that the position would be reversed?
If that came to pass, what then?
Meanwhile, I await the announcement that we will be deploying a task force or sending troops in a peacekeeping role somewhere we shouldn't be poking our noses in - it's only a question of time before this fascist government pays back its sponsors in the arms industry by ordering the military to let off some of their state-of-the-art big squibs so we need to buy some more.
As an optimist......no, cancel that one!
Tom
As a socialist, I believe it is utter stupidity to withdraw from the EU but I must respect the democratic view.
Nonetheless, I am curious to know, given the post-EU referendum discussions in the popular media and the reported numbers who would like to re-run the ballot because they now feel they were not properly informed before the well-advertised exercise, would the 'Leave' camp be happy to do it all again, knowing there is a very good chance that the position would be reversed?
If that came to pass, what then?
Meanwhile, I await the announcement that we will be deploying a task force or sending troops in a peacekeeping role somewhere we shouldn't be poking our noses in - it's only a question of time before this fascist government pays back its sponsors in the arms industry by ordering the military to let off some of their state-of-the-art big squibs so we need to buy some more.
As an optimist......no, cancel that one!
Tom
Does it indeed, when so many lies have been told for a generation to sour the public attitude to the EU?
Strange form your democracy takes, but lets go for article 50 and put your money where your mouth is! (unfortunately mine too)
Why is there a delay, could it be our Government is incapable of handling the job?
Or are they up to something you won't like?
The idea is to never have to give command to use it, having ability to do so prevents you having to.
Your view is idealistic but fatally flawed.
Its a foolish stance. You talk of growing up in war torn Hull. Without our nuclear capability you,d be speaking Russian, if you were lucky.There is no way any uk leader would be elected with a unilateral nuclear arms stoppage. Multilateral perhaps, but that is pie in sky...
May said what she had to.
Yes its a MAD world but unfortunately getting worse.
Ok, so can you explain why Russia hasn't invaded, Poland? Norway? or pretty much every other country in the world? if the only thing stopping them coming here is our Nuclear capability? I think you'll find that capability is from an old world and no longer needed.
The usual Rot passed off as wisdom, we don't speak Russian today because the Russians never intended to invade us as we were ALLIES.
And ask yourself an honest question.
What the heck has anyone to gain from invading these islands?
Name something of such value that justifies the effort, expense and casualties.
We don't have a damn thing they haven't got already, and would represent a no profit enterprise, trouble with no visible reward
Why would anyone want to attack us with Nuclear Weapons?
Now here there is a clear reason;
Because we possess the same weapons and pose a real threat
For no good reason other than the nonsense idea that we are an important nation, and we have to have a big stick.
And yet we are leaving the EU because we can't make them do exactly what we want them to, and like a Tortoise pull our necks back into our shell?
Some important nation we! too weak to be able to operate in the relatively small arena of the EU and influence them to do as we wish.
We have just voted ourselves a far smaller and less significant place in the world, and wasted a whole generation's worth of progress at a stroke.
And we want a bigger stick than the other kids at the bottom of the heap like ourselves have?
Prime Minister, here is the gun. You must shoot our economy with it.
There are currently at least 8 cases in the High Courts against triggering article 50.
the only way that article 50 can be triggered without parliament is by a new tory leader. Mrs May does not have to do this herself.
The best outcome is for Mrs May dragging the process on until the next election with a package that may suit everyone: Norway. The economy will do fine like it is as long as article 50 is not triggered. The exporters will get the advantage of the cheap Pound, the importers should suffer a bit of low sales. Brexiters can keep the fig leaf over retaining 'controls'. If she wins, she'll get the mandate. If she loses, then the next labour or liblab government will cancel it altogether.
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And that gun is a starting gun to signal that the UK economy is about to sprint ahead that of France and Germany. Just like the IMF has said a post Brexit uk will do.
Nucs are another ball game. They stopped the Japs dead in their tracks and brought an almost immediate end to the fighting, starvation and torture of uk and allied soldiers. They knew another bucket of nuclear sunshine was on the way if they persisted. If the Japs had access to nuclear weapons, then the USA wouldn't have dared to detonated a couple on Jap soil for fear of what would be heading back their way.
Those early chemical & biological WMDs weren't such a deterrent at the start of the war, not like the stuff made at Aldermaston today. If Poland was in possession of such a defence, the Germans would have gone elsewhere, somewhere that didn't.
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Just a reminder. Nuclear weapons could not prevent the great powers being defeated in Vietnam and Afghanistan could they?
Expensive and dangerous toys!
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Sure, the economy will rebound strongly at some stage after brexit. Mrs May has to shoot it in the foot first though.
apparently, remain means remain for Scotland at today's PMQ.
Yes, they're load of w@nkers down at the old IMF. Oh, hang on a minute, weren't they being taken seriously just a few days ago when they were predicting doom?
I think I'm getting the hang of this now. If an organisation predicts doom, then they are a serious and credible institution. If they are optimistic, then we must disregard them. This rule applies even if a once credible doom monger reviews the situation and then predicts a brighter future. So then that organisation's status will change from credible to untrustworthy.
Got it. Just like there is more to democracy than merely a majority vote.