Brexit, for once some facts.

[trex]

When it's hard cash and the company's health is at stake, a way will always be found. That's why we will still trade if BREXIT happens.

the lifeline of any business is sales.
ask yourself why we (and RR) sell so much more per country within the EU than outside. Isn't it because it's easier? Brexit will cause a lot of current purchasing plans to be put on hold.
Ask any sales executive if they want Brexit.

 

[tillson]

the lifeline of any business is sales.
ask yourself why we (and RR) sell so much more per country within the EU than outside. Isn't it because it's easier? Brexit will cause a lot of current purchasing plans to be put on hold.
Ask any sales executive if they want Brexit.

If Lufthansa, KLM, Air Italia, Iberia etc want RR engines on the wing, they will have them. BREXIT or no BREXIT.

JCB is anther company which believes in itself. A highly skilled workforce making a product which is in demand. If a German wants to dig a trench and wants JCB plant to do it, he / she will buy a JCB.

BREXIT will cause a change to the economy, but it won't be as bad as predicted. It may even be better.

 

[flecc]

Those same folk quote their information as fact ( which it rarely is) and imply brexiters are utterly misinformed.

I don't imply Brexiters are misinformed, I believe Brexiters don't want accurate information, it being so inconvenient.

Theirs is a position of faith, a blind belief in what they would like to be true in future, rather than a rational position based on known facts.

Brexit could qualify as a religion.
.

 

[trex]

JCB is anther company which believes in itself. A highly skilled workforce making a product which is in demand. If a German wants to dig a trench and wants JCB plant to do it, he / she will buy a JCB..

JCB and Dyson don't employ a huge number of people, and are not representative of our economy. If you quote a big pharma or RR then it's different.

BREXIT will cause a change to the economy, but it won't be as bad as predicted. It may even be better.

I am tempted to agree with you on this, hoping that Brexit may get some of our yougsters off their backside and do something positive. However, I fear that our youths know a lot more about pop celebrities than geography, physics or chemistry.

 

[oldgroaner]

Why would they need to when we don't need to trade outside the existing agreements? your suggestion Is nonsense

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[BrendanJ]

I don't imply Brexiters are misinformed, I believe Brexiters don't want accurate information, it being so inconvenient.

Theirs is a position of faith, a blind belief in what they would like to be true in future, rather than a rational position based on known facts.

Brexit could qualify as a religion.
.

What absolute tripe, firstly anyone that has worked with facts and figures knows that you can present, manipulate them also to say almost anything you want them to
Additionally I have been constantly amazed by people's inability to draw conclusions from facts which conforms to any logic, is not mislead by preconceptions or points of view
So stop all this nonsense about one side having the moral high ground on the facts, that is just another self serving tactic
From my experience those that revert to relying on facts, figures, experts and rules, regulations lack the imagination or intellect to work it out for themselves

 

[oldgroaner]

Or more likely from Samsung as they are liable to be more reliable and cheaper.

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[flecc]

The second point, losing Airbus as a customer. More horse $h!t. Airbus are not engine customers. Airbus make the aircraft and offer them to the airlines who then choose which engines will power them. Airbus will not make their aircraft unpopular by deliberately, "designing out" Rolls Royce engines from their airframe. This would restrict customer choice and make them less competitive than Boeing who offer GE, Pratt & Whitney and Rolls Royce on their airframes. Customers currently buy Rolls Royce engines, not because we are EU members, but because they have commercial benefits. An airline will not walk away from a Rolls Royce engine just because its maker is not an EU member. It will never happen.

Well said Tillson, it was absolute nonsense for Warren East to imply Airbus had an influence on what engines airlines choose. Clearly he was trying to exploit the general public's lack of knowledge on this issue.

There's not only the commercial aspect of airline engine choice, there's also the political dimension. There are many countries who prefer to avoid the two American large engine options for political reasons.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't imply Brexiters are misinformed, I believe Brexiters don't want accurate information, it being so inconvenient.

Theirs is a position of faith, a blind belief in what they would like to be true in future, rather than a rational position based on known facts.

Brexit could qualify as a religion.
.

More like a delusion surely?

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[BrendanJ]

JCB and Dyson don't employ a huge number of people, and are not representative of our economy. If you quote a big pharma or RR then it's different.


I am tempted to agree with you on this, hoping that Brexit may get some of our yougsters off their backside and do something positive. However, I fear that our youths know a lot more about pop celebrities than geography, physics or chemistry.

Thank you trex for recognising that the economic arguments were overblown.
The respected and probable estimates are gdp could be affected by plus or minus 1% by 2030 14 years from now, so completely out of any bounds of forecasting capability, this is also based on less than an expected growth % anyway so still on the plus side and also assumes that the eu will continue to grow which is by know means certain Especially if we leave, it would more probably disintegrate in that timescale
So the conclusion here is simply the answer is not in the economic modelling

 

[flecc]

Still waiting for an answer on how we will be able to extract 1.6 trillion pounds out of the trade with the EU to eradicate our debt.

We got into that debt by living beyond our means for decades The answer to getting out of it is living below our means so that the difference reduces the debt over time.

It's nothing to do with the EU either way, it's just simple household economics.
.

 

[oldgroaner]

If Lufthansa, KLM, Air Italia, Iberia etc want RR engines on the wing, they will have them. BREXIT or no BREXIT.

JCB is anther company which believes in itself. A highly skilled workforce making a product which is in demand. If a German wants to dig a trench and wants JCB plant to do it, he / she will buy a JCB.

BREXIT will cause a change to the economy, but it won't be as bad as predicted. It may even be better.

Provided it complies with EU specs,approvals and regulations that we will have to negotiate

no, I am not saying that. Airlines will buy their engines on fuel efficiency and price. However, government licences are needed for engines. Currently, the EU has trade deals with about 58 countries in addition to trading blocs, making the selling process much more streamlined than after Brexit.
Airlines need to place forward contracts for decades, they certainly don't want anyone rocking the boat.
The economic future after Brexit is the non-aligned bloc. I don't want us to go there.

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[flecc]

What absolute tripe, firstly anyone that has worked with facts and figures knows that you can present, manipulate them also to say almost anything you want them to

I can't manipulate what happened before we joined the EU, those of us old enough remember it only too well.

So stop all this nonsense about one side having the moral high ground on the facts, that is just another self serving tactic

I've made no claim to any moral ground, just given some facts, as just above.

From my experience those that revert to relying on facts, figures, experts and rules, regulations lack the imagination or intellect to work it out for themselves

Work what out? What is this "it" that we need to work out? It's this sort of vague statement that prompts me to think in terms of Brexit being a faith belief.
.

 

[shemozzle999]

We got into that debt by living beyond our means for decades The answer to getting out of it is living below our means so that the difference reduces the debt over time.

It's nothing to do with the EU either way, it's just simple household economics.
.

In that case the leavers will hold up the carpet while the remainers sweep it under it.

 

[tillson]

Provided it complies with EU specs,approvals and regulations that we will have to negotiate



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it will comply and trade will be agreed. The consequences of not trading will ensure that it happens.

 

[trex]

bookies said more than 95% of the new bets are now going to remain.

probability for a Brexit result is now only 22%.

 

[oldgroaner]

it will comply and trade will be agreed. The consequences of not trading will ensure that it happens.

I concur, but the question is what will be lost in trade if there is any real delays in the process, and that is why I fear that to avoid that we end up with the worst of both worlds, the Norway scenario where we pay a ransom to trade but get no say in the unfolding of events inside the EU.
Are you confident we can avoid getting drawn into that sort of arrangement with the incompetent politicians we can field as a defence?

 

[oldgroaner]

What absolute tripe, firstly anyone that has worked with facts and figures knows that you can present, manipulate them also to say almost anything you want them to
Additionally I have been constantly amazed by people's inability to draw conclusions from facts which conforms to any logic, is not mislead by preconceptions or points of view
So stop all this nonsense about one side having the moral high ground on the facts, that is just another self serving tactic
From my experience those that revert to relying on facts, figures, experts and rules, regulations lack the imagination or intellect to work it out for themselves

It seems you prefer wishful thinking to a rational approach, and apparently only trust in facts that defy the scientific test of having to be provable,in other words wishful thinking.
"Additionally I have been constantly amazed by people's inability to draw conclusions from facts which conforms to any logic, is not mislead by preconceptions or points of view"
Can you translate that so that the rest of humanity can grasp the wisdom in those words? or is it a word substitution game?

"From my experience those that revert to relying on facts, figures, experts and rules, regulations lack the imagination or intellect to work it out for themselves"
Now that is much more understandable and clearly means
"Don't bother me with facts, using my infinite wisdom I can make my mind up without them"
Such touching faith!

 

[oldgroaner]

bookies said more than 95% of the new bets are now going to remain.

probability for a Brexit result is now only 22%.

And yet I still feel the probability indicates a Brexit victory (mores the pity)

 

[oldgroaner]

In that case the leavers will hold up the carpet while the remainers sweep it under it.

How?