Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldgroaner]

And from the Telegraph
"
Tory leadership: Theresa May warns EU migration could rise in the wake of the Brexit vote"

Am I dreaming? I have been accused of being too pessimistic about the future and now the leading candidate for the Government leadership is stupid enough to say something as inflammatory as this?

Talk about "Behold the monster you've created" Mr Cameron! and now the dreadful Mrs May has taken up the baton.
The Public should be permitted to sign a vote as the whether or not the inmates of House of Commons be committed to a padded cell.
This is not what the 52% want to hear you pillock!

Cromwell had the right idea
http://www.emersonkent.com/speeches/dismissal_of_the_rump_parliament.htm

 

[oldgroaner]

Which is probably the reason why the decision is being delayed. Only this morning Home Office minister James Brokenshire has said it won't be until the end of the year, and there's some talk of next Spring.

The longer it drags on, the greater the chance that the referendum result will be set aside.

However, I still think article 50 will on balance be triggered.
.

Rather in the manner that the Taiwanese Navy sank a Japanese Fishing boat with an "Aircraft Carrier busting Missile" because a sailor was showing off to his friends and fired it accidentally?
If I may make an observation, either the missile is woefully inadequate in destructive power since a sailor on the boat survived.
Or Japanese Fishing boats are a darned sight tougher than Aircraft Carriers are thought to be (despite the size difference)
This will of course be reflected in a massive boost in orders for the small but extremely efficient Japanese Boat Building industry.
There's a killing to be made on the shares to someone in the know
(without naming any names of course)
"The Goodness will flow" and has started already.

 

[oldgroaner]

Here you are i have found the perfect candidate for the Labour Leadership

I am of course kidding! but he would add at least a little spice to PMq's wouldn't he?
Image the situation.

 

[oldgroaner]

While I'm in a good mood and appreciate humour here is a classic
"Michael Gove claims it was 'telling' Boris quit the Tory race as soon as he was challenged - and even insists knifing Johnson proves he can take on PUTIN"
The Mouse that ROARED!
And this from a man who is directed by his Wife..
There's optimism (let the Goodness flow) in abundance round the House of Commons)and then there's Goveism
He's a legend in his wife's imagination.
LTGF as Spock might say (displaying the "V" sign)

 

[derf]

I am sorry that Cameron is going. Replacing him with anyone of the five candidates will not help us in the next 2 years. None of them strikes me as intelligent and charismatic. My choice would have been Philip Hammond if he were to run.

sure, i agree about the five candidates not bing intelligent or charismatic. i even agree with tony Blair saying that the tory leader selection disenfranchises teh 14 million who voted remain (were nt part of a key debate about our future). BUT what do you make of cameron simply dissapearing form the stage?? I'm not saying he has to sign article 50 - sure, he can leave that for whoever follows. But surely the self serving little twat coudl find teh decency somewhere in himself to provide some proactive leadership to a countryhe has dumped in crisis for his own selfish political ends?

 

[oldgroaner]

sure, i agree about the five candidates not bing intelligent or charismatic. i even agree with tony Blair saying that the tory leader selection disenfranchises teh 14 million who voted remain (were nt part of a key debate about our future). BUT what do you make of cameron simply dissapearing form the stage?? I'm not saying he has to sign article 50 - sure, he can leave that for whoever follows. But surely the self serving little twat coudl find teh decency somewhere in himself to provide some proactive leadership to a countryhe has dumped in crisis for his own selfish political ends?

Actually if this piece is correct, he actually can't sign it without a Parliament approval
"Under Clegg’s scenario, MPs after an election would scrutinise the government’s specific plan to ensure it was legal and workable, and crucially, article 50 should only be triggered following a vote of consent from MPs. He points out that many top legal experts have disputed the notion that the prime minister can invoke article 50 on her or his own."
So the rat has deserted the sinking ship even though he didn't need to.

 

[oldtom]

The tories seem to have taken the ostrich position over this Article 50 issue. As one who voted to remain in the EU, I'm appalled at this indecision on the part of the government as I believe they were given a clear mandate by the people.

Democratically, in my opinion, the MPs should debate the referendum result - shouldn't take long - then endorse the will of the people by voting to implement Article 50 immediately.

As things stand, Britain is looking simply ridiculous in the eyes of the watching world so let's kill the uncertainty and get things moving as the people have determined.

The smokescreen of a leadership contest is irrelevant and the deputy PM should be taking the bull by the horns and progressing the issue. I really can't see any problem other than those springing from inventive minds searching for a way to avoid the inevitable. Re-run the ballot? I can't see the point as if it should go the other way, what then? The best of three.........let's just get on with it.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

In my taxi home,I chatted Brexit with the taxi driver....taxi drivers are acknowledged experts at everything,but he had no knowledge of the following facts...
He thought the referendum was legally empowered....not true it is only advisory,parliament can ignore it.The only mechanism by which we can leave the EU is Article 50,Article 50 can only be triggered by parliament.
He thought we had 2 years to trigger Article 50 after the referendum,that is not correct ,we leave after 2 years after Article 50 is triggered.
He did not realise that if we have a new General Election with a new government/manifesto then the referendum based on the previous manifesto can be ignored.
He also said that very few of his customers actually understood the law,we have done a very bad education exercise around Brexit.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The tories seem to have taken the ostrich position over this Article 50 issue. As one who voted to remain in the EU, I'm appalled at this indecision on the part of the government as I believe they were given a clear mandate by the people.

Democratically, in my opinion, the MPs should debate the referendum result - shouldn't take long - then endorse the will of the people by voting to implement Article 50 immediately.

As things stand, Britain is looking simply ridiculous in the eyes of the watching world so let's kill the uncertainty and get things moving as the people have determined.

The smokescreen of a leadership contest is irrelevant and the deputy PM should be taking the bull by the horns and progressing the issue. I really can't see any problem other than those springing from inventive minds searching for a way to avoid the inevitable. Re-run the ballot? I can't see the point as if it should go the other way, what then? The best of three.........let's just get on with it.

Tom

Tom...Our government cannot vote on Article 50 until the terms of the EU exit are finalised,that will take many years,It will certainly not be before 2020.
It wasn't a clear Mandate,16 million v. 17 million and many leavers didn't understand upon what they were voting,the already broken promises of the Leave campaign may well affect another ballot....I have spoken to some voters who thought that when the referendum result was known the immigration would fall next week,they didn't understand it will take minimum 6 years.
Britain is not looking ridiculous,many of the EU countries are impressed by the way we have stood up to the EU bullies.
There is no need for a second referendum,Effectively a win for Therasa May at the next General Election based upon a new manifesto will push the referendum into last years news,best forgotten.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

Tom...Our government cannot vote on Article 50 until the terms of the EU exit are finalised,that will take many years,It will certainly not be before 2020.
It wasn't a clear Mandate,16 million v. 17 million and many leavers didn't understand upon what they were voting,the already broken promises of the Leave campaign may well affect another ballot....I have spoken to some voters who thought that when the referendum result was known the immigration would fall next week,they didn't understand it will take minimum 6 years.
Britain is not looking ridiculous,many of the EU countries are impressed by the way we have stood up to the EU bullies.
There is no need for a second referendum,Effectively a win for Therasa May at the next General Election based upon a new manifesto will push the referendum into last years news,best forgotten.
KudosDave

Sadly it would appear not to be the case the implication is that it is a one way process than cannot be reversed
http://openeurope.org.uk/today/blog/the-mechanics-of-leaving-the-eu-explaining-article-50/
Invoke article 50 and you are out and on the mercy of the EU as to the terms you get.
As I noted earlier no one is keen to press the red button as they know it is connected to an overhead septic tank, and the bloody thing is overflowing as it is.

 

[oldtom]

Britain is not looking ridiculous,many of the EU countries are impressed by the way we have stood up to the EU bullies.

Oh, that's just nonsense Dave. You have spent too long listening to Farage &Co spouting exactly that kind of rubbish.

The EU is probably the most democratic, large-scale entity ever created and it only continues to operate because the representatives of 28 nation states agree on a whole raft of issues. If your view of democratic process is that the consensus achieved in the parliament is somehow an act of bullying, then I can't begin to understand how you would describe fairness and how that might ever be achieved.

British politics has become, like the England football team, a laughing stock following the two recent major referendum results - Scotland becoming the only country ever to vote against independence and Britain voting to leave the EU then not proceeding with the next step immediately. My French and German friends plus my family in Ireland, Denmark and N. Zealand think we have lost the plot and I can't disagree.

The original member states have been in the business of economic co-operation for 15 years longer than the UK and it has served all of them very well. When a desperate British government wanted to have a piece of the action, General De Gaulle did his level best to prevent us gaining membership. He did that because he knew that we would just spoil the party, such is the nature of Britain's attitude towards other countries; the easiest definition of which is probably, 'arrogance'.

My take on it is, if we're out, we're out so let's get straight into the necessary negotiations that require to be completed inside 2 years. Vacillating now only prolongs the timescale for negotiations. The full rigmarole as the UK government has it can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/504216/The_process_for_withdrawing_from_the_EU_print_ready.pdf

Tom

 

[oldgroaner]

The situation is rather like the scene where the Pirates of the Caribbean discuss the Pirate code, just change the words a bit.
Hence......
................................
The referendum is a mandate of the people! cries one voice

Referendums? they're for Guidance only! replies the PM voice rising

What about the wishes of the people? cries the first voice again

Who cares about the Bloody people?WE'RE THE GOVERNMENT, ARENT WE? shouts the PM

Did I get any of that wrong do you think?

 

[shemozzle999]

The deal relies heavily on what influence the Americans exert on Europe as it has become a vital part of the barrier between the China/Russian pact and the Western world.

John Kerry arrived swiftly on the screen after the result.

Like all deal makers he will have to ensure all parties are accommodated.

 

[oldtom]

That's post #1973 'shemozzle' - that was the year that was!

Tom

 

[tillson]

the deputy PM should be taking the bull by the horns and progressing the issue.

I had to look up who the Deputy PM is. I can name most politicians and their role but didn't know who held this office.

Now I know, I feel a crushing sense of disappointment.

 

[shemozzle999]

That's post #1973 'shemozzle' - that was the year that was!

Tom

The difference is today it is over financial control. Turkey is also the missing piece in the barrier and is being courted by both sides - why do you think they made the apology for the shot down Russian airplane and why the EU have resumed talks with them on joining the EU.

 

[oldtom]

I had to look up who the Deputy PM is.

My understanding is that Robert Halfon, the skinhead who represents Harlow, is deputy party leader so by extension, I'd say he's the best-placed to be described as deputy PM.

Tom

 

[Kudoscycles]

Oh, that's just nonsense Dave. You have spent too long listening to Farage &Co spouting exactly that kind of rubbish.

The EU is probably the most democratic, large-scale entity ever created and it only continues to operate because the representatives of 28 nation states agree on a whole raft of issues. If your view of democratic process is that the consensus achieved in the parliament is somehow an act of bullying, then I can't begin to understand how you would describe fairness and how that might ever be achieved.

British politics has become, like the England football team, a laughing stock following the two recent major referendum results - Scotland becoming the only country ever to vote against independence and Britain voting to leave the EU then not proceeding with the next step immediately. My French and German friends plus my family in Ireland, Denmark and N. Zealand think we have lost the plot and I can't disagree.

The original member states have been in the business of economic co-operation for 15 years longer than the UK and it has served all of them very well. When a desperate British government wanted to have a piece of the action, General De Gaulle did his level best to prevent us gaining membership. He did that because he knew that we would just spoil the party, such is the nature of Britain's attitude towards other countries; the easiest definition of which is probably, 'arrogance'.

My take on it is, if we're out, we're out so let's get straight into the necessary negotiations that require to be completed inside 2 years. Vacillating now only shortens the period set down for negotiations. The full rigmarole as the UK government has it can be found here:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/504216/The_process_for_withdrawing_from_the_EU_print_ready.pdf

Tom

Tom....actually I have quite enjoyed Farage lately,his speech to the EU was refreshing in its directness,but I don't agree with Brexit.
I am involved in selling air compressors,at one time there was 12 different standards throughout the EU,now there is one harmonisation accepted throughout all 28 member states,although the UK is trying to hang onto the now obsolete BS standard....this is one example of what we need to negotiate prior to Article 50 if we are not to be excluded from selling into Europe,ironically the harmonisation standard went live on 20 April,2016.
Sorry Tom but you are also ignorant of the facts,the 2 year period is only after we trigger Article 50,we can take 10 years negotiating our exit deal/strategy and there is nothing the EU can do about it,that's why Junckers is so aggressive about it.
If there was a vote tomorrow in Parliament 450 MPs would vote to remain and reject Article 50. Jeremy Hunt put his foot in it when he stated that Article 50 would not be triggered until at least after the next General Election.
Theresa May is still a remainer but she needs to give the impression that she is pro Brexit to secure the PM vote,after that she will develop her own manifesto to fight the General Election,who else could win that other than the Tories?
My Dutch,Greece and German contacts think we are and always have been the bad boys of Europe,when I point out to them that we need a good deal from the EU if we are to leave,their response is that we voted to leave and good riddance. They are also ignorant of the rules and don't realise that the EU cannot chuck us out,it may take 10 years to negotiate a settlement that is acceptable to Parliament and trigger Article 50,they also think we have only 2 years.
KudosDave

 

[Kudoscycles]

The situation is rather like the scene where the Pirates of the Caribbean discuss the Pirate code, just change the words a bit.
Hence......
................................
The referendum is a mandate of the people! cries one voice

Referendums? they're for Guidance only! replies the PM voice rising

What about the wishes of the people? cries the first voice again

Who cares about the Bloody people?WE'RE THE GOVERNMENT, ARENT WE? shouts the PM

Did I get any of that wrong do you think?

OG....I remember that conversation between the Pirates....the code is for guidance only. Or in Yes Minister.....' It's the truth Prime Minister,Humphrey I don't want the truth I want something I can tell Parliament!'
Something we must surely have learnt over this referendum is that the politicians distorted 'the facts', such that the truth was completely lost.
Post referendum,the Gove/Boris stabbing is still unclear why Boris fell on his sword so quickly but one thing is certain May will orchestrate Brexit or otherwise in such a way to suit the government,I suspect the referendum is already ignored.
KudosDave

 

[oldgroaner]

OG....I remember that conversation between the Pirates....the code is for guidance only. Or in Yes Minister.....' It's the truth Prime Minister,Humphrey I don't want the truth I want something I can tell Parliament!'
Something we must surely have learnt over this referendum is that the politicians distorted 'the facts', such that the truth was completely lost.
Post referendum,the Gove/Boris stabbing is still unclear why Boris fell on his sword so quickly but one thing is certain May will orchestrate Brexit or otherwise in such a way to suit the government,I suspect the referendum is already ignored.
KudosDave

My feelings exactly![emoji1]

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk