Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
no, the other way.
If labour comes off the fence, they will have to concede that having cake is incompatible with eating it and membership of single market or customs union is essential to avoid losing jobs and FDI, they will be forced to say that the choice is the same as the EU has said, between hard brexit and no brexit, and they won't do any better than the tories at negotiating.
They'll lose a chunk of staunch brexiters to ukip and a bunch of remainers to the libdems at the next GE and JC will not become PM.
What is best for the country is for labour to win another 25-30 seats from the tories and be forced into a coalition with the SNP or libdems or better still, both.
Woosh
I,ve searched ebay, amazon and even Wallmart...cant find a 4k crystal ball like yours anywhere..
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,268
30,652
Flecc, I find myself in agreement with Zatlan on this. Surely if the majority of UK voters are now remainers, or even if there was only a swing of 2% , then the Labour viewpoint of a non Brexit or at most a very soft brexit , would have been carried. If you and others, including the leadership of the Labour party , believe that such a swing would not have happened or would not happen, then all those polls were wrong and just more wishful thinking. And frankly the British public deserve the problems a hard Brexit will provide.
By not providing an alternative, Labour would be complicit in the current situation.

The role of a serious political party is to achieve government, anything less is failure. Increasing the number of seats is fine, but unless it provides a platform for policy imolementation, is hollow. Moral victories are fine on sports fields, but not in the real world.
Like Zlatan I think you are discounting the propensity of Labour supporters to switch to voting UKIP if they thought their Brexit desires were being thwarted.

A moral victory isn't in question, JC was merely going with the flow and not rocking the boat. The fact that it all worked out well for him in the end was sheer luck, as I posted earlier.
.
 
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,454
16,917
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
JC did get millions of protest votes from students. indebted young graduates and austeirity victims.
His recent 'clarification' on student loans may lose him a fair few of them.
The problem is JC still suffers from the credibility gap.
If I were Richard Branson, I'd fund Chuka to set up a remain ukip.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: robdon

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
They may spend most of the time as a transient gaseous plasma. To get them into a 4k crystalline state you may have to freeze his balls.
.
I recommend a cupful of liquid oxygen, drip fed onto a lint bandage.
That will put a lustre on any balls, but take care not to drop them..
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
Many Labour voters were persuaded to UKIP because they were anti immigration,they took on board Farage who told them the ills of the U.K. could all be cured if we got out of the U.K.
When the vote was leave then UKIP fell apart,their job done,these voters happily returned to Labour because J-M promised them Brexit,leaving the single market and the custom Union ,that's why he whipped the vote to ensure no Labour MP's broke the whip ,those that did got sacked. If he hadn't done that those voters would have voted Tory ,T-M promising hard Brexit. But the Toryies are now diluting brexit to a soft form and even with a transition ,Nigel Farage is accusing the Tories of being the traitors of Brexit and democratic back sliding.
J-C can wait whilst T-M destroys herself and the Tory party. J-C is saying that we will leave the single market and the customs union,to be replaced by a tariff free access to the EU. To be fair the Tories are saying very much the same but they will be the first to try to negotiate and J-C can learn from May's mistakes.
KudosDave
 
  • Like
Reactions: robdon

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Ineffectual enough to win the next election! :D

That will be after the deal on leaving the EU, leaving the Tories to blame for that and him in the clear. What is so bad about that?
.
.. just the fact that the UK will be rapidly sinking economically. It is not logical to assume that once everything has been signed sealed and delivered, that getting back in to the EU would be a simple matter. It would not be as simple, as some of us of a certain vintage remember of JR Ewiing or was it Bobbie waking up from a dream in the series Dallas. After interest in that series nosedived for 2 or 3 seasons ... Interesting that the timescale would be about 2 to 3 years , in both cases.....
 
Last edited:
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon and flecc

Danidl

Esteemed Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2016
8,611
12,256
73
Ireland
Like Zlatan I think you are discounting the propensity of Labour supporters to switch to voting UKIP if they thought their Brexit desires were being thwarted.

A moral victory isn't in question, JC was merely going with the flow and not rocking the boat. The fact that it all worked out well for him in the end was sheer luck, as I posted earlier.
.
. Presumably they would be counterbalanced by lib dem or cons. Voters who are even more concerned about Brexit.. otherwise this is all hot air and you Brits are actually pleased with the current trajectory.
What recent elections in Ireland, USA, France have shown is that parties who assume they own an certain vote or electorate have become unstuck.
If Labour is playing a very clever game they are leaving it very close, and they also could find themselves playing catch-up.
What I am picking up from my in-laws , who live in your fair land, is an air of fatalism, that it is now too late for action, that would not help a Labour cause.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon

Kudoscycles

Official Trade Member
Apr 15, 2011
5,566
5,048
www.kudoscycles.com
I am amazed of the naive arrogance of this Tory government. They have now decided that a minimum 2 year transition period will be needed after March 2019. The critical words are 'they have now decided',but such an arrangement would require the agreement of all 27 EU states....what happens if one,or more,decides we can't have that?
Liam Fox is moaning at the BBC reporting,saying that they don't report any of the good news,especially that from his department....what is the good news?
KudosDave
 
  • Agree
  • Like
Reactions: flecc and robdon

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,454
16,917
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
What I am picking up from my in-laws , who live in your fair land, is an air of fatalism,
Both tories and labour cannot bring themselves to concede that hard brexit will cause real long term economic setback.
they will continue to hope in vain for better economic news.
How can there be any better news when the UK stated brexit policy is to lose the current stability before the next GE and the only weapon is devaluation?
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
From the Independent
"
Labour would take Britain out of the EU single market, Jeremy Corbyn says
The party's position on the customs union has not yet been decided, however

"But we want a Tariff Free agreement with the Market"
Cake and Eat it comes to mind

I fear there is no hope for the country from anyone in Monty Python's Flying Circus (Formerly Known as the House of Commons)
 
  • Agree
Reactions: flecc and robdon

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Further Evidence of Lunacy
"
Jacob Rees-Mogg now second favourite to replace Theresa May as next Tory leader
Tory backbencher appears to be emerging as threat to David Davis, who is widely thought to be frontrunner"

They couldn't get Kermit the Frog?
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,454
16,917
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
From the Independent
"
Labour would take Britain out of the EU single market, Jeremy Corbyn says
The party's position on the customs union has not yet been decided, however

"But we want a Tariff Free agreement with the Market"
Cake and Eat it comes to mind

I fear there is no hope for the country from anyone in Monty Python's Flying Circus (Formerly Known as the House of Commons)
I did warn you lot that JC is a brexiter, perhaps not quite a hard brexiter but he's a eurosceptic all his career.
A recent poll (last month) suggested that as much as 70% of conservative membership want a hard brexit, I suspect that percentage among the labour membership is similar. They are the people who make TM and JC leaders of their parties and consequently, PM.
Interestingly, the same poll suggests that the majority of the British public would feel joy when the UK leaves the EU.
 
  • Dislike
Reactions: oldtom

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,454
16,917
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
if you are a remainer, do not cling to JC.
He says many things but he is foremost a career politician (ie says one thing to get vote but when in power, does something else not quite like what was promised). If he becomes PM, he's not going to do anything different to TM.
Your only hope is for the next government to be a proper coalition one.
 
  • Disagree
Reactions: oldtom

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
if you are a remainer, do not cling to JC.
He says many things but he is foremost a career politician (ie says one thing to get vote but when in power, does something else not quite like what was promised). If he becomes PM, he's not going to do anything different to TM.
Your only hope is for the next government to be a proper coalition one.
Sorry but that is a non starter too, the politicians of all stripes are putting their careers in peril over Brexit, and something has to give.
Not now but in the short to medium term after the Euphoria carefully stage managed on Brexit Day
 
  • Agree
Reactions: oldtom and robdon

tommie

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mar 13, 2013
1,760
600
Co. Down, N. Ireland, U.K.
What a paradise this EU is, can`t wait till we get back in again..:rolleyes:

`Fear new insurance rule could put people off electric bikes
By Neil_Shaw | Posted: July 24, 2017
Fear new insurance rule could put people off electric bikes
Thousands of potential cyclists could be put off if compulsory third party insurance is introduced for electric bikes, a leading retailer has warned.
Halfords said the proposal, being considered by the European Union, would be "unnecessarily complex" and would burden people with extra costs

Read more at http://www.devonlive.com/fear-new-insurance-rule-could-put-people-off-electric-bikes/story-30453396-detail/story.html#iQJmKxsmCBWYw0PL.99`
 

flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
53,268
30,652
A recent poll (last month) suggested that as much as 70% of conservative membership want a hard brexit, I suspect that percentage among the labour membership is similar. They are the people who make TM and JC leaders of their parties and consequently, PM.
I'd have liked to have seen the actual questions asked, they must have been biased since this outcome is simply not true. Nor do I believe the majority of Tory MPs want a hard Brexit, only about 80 of them were Leavers.

Interestingly, the same poll suggests that the majority of the British public would feel joy when the UK leaves the EU.
It'd be remarkably short lived joy!
.
 
  • Agree
Reactions: robdon and oldtom

Advertisers