Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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no, it's not the obvious truth.
40% of our export are services, 60% are goods. Trade in goods are just as important, if not more so.
Even if we go out on WTO terms, trade with the EU27 and other countries that have FTAs with the EU won't disappear overnight. There may not be growth for a while, but the immediate effect would be very limited.
Remainers see only the negative effects of pre-brexit jitters like drop in value of the Pound, 3% inflation, 1% reduction in family income etc they should also think of some positive effects like low, stable interest rate, house price inflation is now nearly wiped out and reduced EU immigration.
Socialists should think of the effect of house prices on family income. There has never been a greater robbery in history.
You appear to be using different maths to those the Chancellor does.


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Kudoscycles

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I don't think it is going to be as bad as remainers fear.
All what we have to do is to set up EU offices. Inland Revenue may lose a chunk on its CT tax take while some deals being thrashed out but again, the effect is limited.
How will Hammond replace the reduction in tax take?
This is especially critical at a time when our economy is poor,the social and NHS need money,the public sector are due a pay rise and who knows what the divorce bill will be.
How is that limited effect?
We are going to be very short of money and if Labour gets in we are going to need a lot of money trees.
Hammond realises that he has a lot of problems coming up,that is why he is so negative to Brexit.
What surprises me is that so many people are so pro Brexit....the government is cutting benefits,those in work are feeling the effects of price rises and nobody is saying that Brexit is going to be a financial success ,even ardent Brexiteers are talking damage limitation.....yet so many still aggressively want Brexit,what positives am I missing?
KudosDave
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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I don't think it is going to be as bad as remainers fear.
All what we have to do is to set up EU offices.
But with services that's dangerous since they will have to be genuine offices with the business done through them. That means some of our experts in charge in those countries and resident there. Once established with their families there, they will easily be enticed to join our European rivals in Frankfurt and Paris.

Exporting our expertise is like privatisation all over again, selling the family silver for a one off gain and very short sighted.
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Woosh

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But all land in China has to be returned to government ownership after 70 years,it hasn't prevented a massive property bubble,especially in the bigger cities.
Not sure what happens after 70 years.
KudosDave
Not just China. Where land (or other natural resources) is leased out by government, you get massive corruption.
The best way to keep house price inflation moderate or low is moderate or low immigration/people movement.
 

Woosh

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But with services that's dangerous since they will have to be genuine offices with the business done through them. That means some of our experts in charge in those countries and resident there. Once established with their families there, they will easily be enticed to join our European rivals in Frankfurt and Paris.

Exporting our expertise is like privatisation all over again, selling the family silver for a one off gain and very short sighted.
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it's only for a short period.
 

flecc

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But all land in China has to be returned to government ownership after 70 years,it hasn't prevented a massive property bubble,especially in the bigger cities.
Not sure what happens after 70 years.
KudosDave
That was bound to happen with China's explosive growth, but it's a temporary phenomena, and the 70 years is an artifice.

Long term in an old and stable country like ours, not owing the land a property is on would lead to structural value only being dominant, with just one exception. That is where many premises are wanted in a small area with demand outstripping availability such as the City of London, but that's commercial and not a concern for housing.

The modern world of remote working and high speed public transport is making home location much less important, and that trend will continue.
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flecc

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.....yet so many still aggressively want Brexit,what positives am I missing?
KudosDave
It's back to the racism card Dave, keeping out the foreigners. Thats been the underlying factor all along, despite all the protestations of innocence from Brexiters. What's happening now exposes that fact.
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Danidl

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Sep 29, 2016
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From the Independent
Well I never! Hammond has been airing what is an obvious truth.

That's not Cricket!
"
Brexit: Free trade deals will have limited benefits for UK, warns Philip Hammond
‘Much of our trade with the world is service trade, where free trade agreements won’t make any particular difference,’ says Chancellor
Philip Hammond has said the global trade deals promised by Theresa May after Brexit will make a limited difference to the British economy, exposing cabinet splits over the European Union.

Speaking at the G20 in Hamburg yesterday, Mr Hammond said the deals touted by Brexiteers as the answer to any hit from EU withdrawal “won’t make any particular difference” to the unusually large portion of Britain’s exports that come from services rather than physical goods."

Not really news, but not normally accepted either!
.. if the deals are service consultant based, then any EU restrictions on trade which was touted as one of reasons for exiting the EU, are irrelevant, so why Brexit?
But if these companies want to deal with European clients then they will need to accept EU rules and ECJ rule...
 
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Woosh

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if the deals are service consultant based
I think we export mainly banking, insurance & re-insurance, legal work and accountancy.
Oh I forgot to mention money laundering.
 

oldgroaner

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For the life of me I can never understand why the ECJ , which we have lived with for a generation suddenly seems to be presented to the Public as a socialist plot resulting in hordes of terrorist, criminals and spongers being able to avoid deportation by the Government.
Why is no one asking the Elephant in the Room questions.
Let's for a moment assume that the ECJ has the power to prevent deportation of undesirables.
  1. ECJ judges interpret the law, they don't make it up on the nonce..why would they have an agenda in this respect?
  2. The facts are it is highly suggestive that the people who go to them have either a good case, and, or, that they have the "Savvy" and the considerable funding or support to go to law with their cases, which indicates they cannot be the simple brutes they are depicted.or alternatively either we have many Lawyers who should be barred from bending the law, to defend them (Who is paying for this?) or our prosecutors are inept
  3. The Government is guilty either of incompetence or malice when dealing with these people., or indeed both.
Attacking the ECJ is like beating the Monkey because you don't like the tune when the Organ Grinder is present.
 
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Woosh

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Attacking the ECJ is like beating the Monkey because you don't like the tune when the Organ Grinder is present.
If you ask someone in the street: would you accept that the ECJ can overrule our High Court and Supreme Court judges?
What do you think their answer will be?
Remainers failed miserably to come up with any argument without most of the voters falling asleep.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
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If you ask someone in the street: would you accept that the ECJ can overrule our High Court and Supreme Court judges?
What do you think their answer will be?
Remainers failed miserably to come up with any argument without most of the voters falling asleep.
The answer is simply this since both our high court and the ECJ are the product of a Democratic process that we are a party to, and we were and are a party to the both the formation and operation of the ECJ with two judges on the panel of five
What the hell is the problem?

I'll tell you what the problem is the average Joe in the street has been fed a pack of lies that he /she has fallen for.
 
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oldgroaner

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From the Express
If ever there was a woman unfit for office it must be May she was actually stupid enough to boast about this
"
Theresa May taunts EU with secret trade talks with Japan after successful Trump meeting
THERESA May has continued to taunt the European Union as the British Prime Minister held further trade talks with Japan’s Shinzo Abe after a successful meeting with Donald Trump this morning.

Bring the clown and the rest of them back, they are simply working very hard to ruin this country
 
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oldgroaner

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Is anyone relieved at this news?
"
Boris Johnson flies in to Qatar to sort out Gulf crisis
The Foreign Secretary is meeting with Kuwaiti and Qatari leaders as Kuwait attempts to mediate and find a solution to the deepening diplomatic crisis in the Gulf
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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If you ask someone in the street: would you accept that the ECJ can overrule our High Court and Supreme Court judges?
What do you think their answer will be?
Remainers failed miserably to come up with any argument without most of the voters falling asleep.
Since it's the European Union, the ECJ's valuable overriding function is consistency of humane treatment across the union.

Now why would anyone fall asleep during that simple 18 word sentence?
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Woosh

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the ECJ's valuable overriding function is consistency of humane treatment across the union.
I think half of the country does not want to hear words like 'function' and 'union'. They'd much prefer to 'make Britain a little poorer perhaps but great again'.
 
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Woosh

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I'll tell you what the problem is the average Joe in the street has been fed a pack of lies that he /she has fallen for.
I don't think it is that simple.
The problem may be that we have always taught our children history with a nationalistic undertone.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
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Since it's the European Union, the ECJ's valuable overriding function is consistency of humane treatment across the union.

Now why would anyone fall asleep during that simple 18 word sentence?
.
Too many BIG words? and it's run by foreigners. hang on lets get this the right way round
It's run by MORE FOREIGNERS than us and you used BIG words
 
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