Brexit, for once some facts.

[BrendanJ]

"which is why in my view we will ultimately have to embrace 2 tier Europe"
Brendan at last you are revealed as a Remainer after all, (just fancied a bit of blackmail on the side?)
Alas for you there are a lot of people who will not be very happy and feel they have been cheated.
Nevertheless all kidding aside I applaud the realism of your latest offering.

You misunderstand me OJ
The euro area will be Europen state, whatever that is called, the rest is simply a free trade area with self governing states, own currencies, non Schengen, no free movement and minimal constraints by EU
Although some budget contribution for the control and administration of single market will be required but less than now , and of course we have to conform to trading rules and standards
We are part of Europe and always will be, we will always trade with Europe, free trade is simply mutually beneficial, just get rid of all these trappings of a single state and political desires rather than economic ones

 

[BrendanJ]

You misunderstand me OJ
The euro area will be Europen state, whatever that is called, the rest is simply a free trade area with self governing states, own currencies, non Schengen, no free movement and minimal constraints by EU
Although some budget contribution for the control and administration of single market will be required but less than now , and of course we have to conform to trading rules and standards
We are part of Europe and always will be, we will always trade with Europe, free trade is simply mutually beneficial, just get rid of all these trappings of a single state and political desires rather than economic ones

Also in the process the euro area will need closer integration including common budget, taxation, debt sharing and financial controls
As part of this some countries will for sure drop out into tier 2 , and to be frank it is far from clear whether even Germany wants such integration, but without it the Euro is finished
Germany was happy to do it with German reunification( not all Germans were happy with it), but re Europe then that is when you find they are German first and European a late 2nd

 

[oldgroaner]

You are probably right but Borris has more appeal with the grass roots Tory members than either the school mistress or the bank manager
Anyway finally it's the team that counts

It only looks like a team because there is no opposition and the law has banned the Typhoo chimps for standing as election candidates.
What a team? liars with a proven track record of failure.
And to think all it took was to put a tick in the wrong box to further the revolt of this revolting lot, and their fifth column friends in the labour Party too.
In a week we have achieved

• A Government where the scum has risen to the top and the "prime minster" label should be changed to "Chief Liar"
• An opposition that has staged a disappearing act that the late Paul Daniels would envy, poor old Corbyn, what chance has a sane man now?
• The UKIP are on course to be the opposition because Negotiations over Brexit to get back in and no change to immigration is going to happen in fact it may increase consequently they will pick up millions of votes from both main parties as a result.
• The Lib Dems are trying for the title"The Mouse that roared" on a platform of getting us back in the EU
• Not that it matters the mood of people round here where the vote was a big majority for Brexit is "We've been Robbed!"

 

[oldgroaner]

You misunderstand me OJ
The euro area will be Europen state, whatever that is called, the rest is simply a free trade area with self governing states, own currencies, non Schengen, no free movement and minimal constraints by EU
Although some budget contribution for the control and administration of single market will be required but less than now , and of course we have to conform to trading rules and standards
We are part of Europe and always will be, we will always trade with Europe, free trade is simply mutually beneficial, just get rid of all these trappings of a single state and political desires rather than economic ones

No Brendan, the misunderstanding wasn't mine, and in any case you are on the right track, so it's really not important.
Snag is a large faction really believed they would get something rather different, and there will be trouble which UKIP will happily pounce on and other Nut job parties too.

 

[oldgroaner]

I hope so, I really don't want Johnson as PM, not now, not any time.
.

Easier to pick between Laurel and Hardy if you want a capable Prime Minister

 

[BrendanJ]

It only looks like a team because there is no opposition and the law has banned the Typhoo chimps for standing as election candidates.
What a team? liars with a proven track record of failure.
And to think all it took was to put a tick in the wrong box to further the revolt of this revolting lot, and their fifth column friends in the labour Party too.
In a week we have achieved

• A Government where the scum has risen to the top and the "prime minster" label should be changed to "Chief Liar"
• An opposition that has staged a disappearing act that the late Paul Daniels would envy, poor old Corbyn, what chance has a sane man now?
• The UKIP are on course to be the opposition because Negotiations over Brexit to get back in and no change to immigration is going to happen in fact it may increase consequently they will pick up millions of votes from both main parties as a result.
• The Lib Dems are trying for the title"The Mouse that roared" on a platform of getting us back in the EU
• Not that it matters the mood of people round here where the vote was a big majority for Brexit is "We've been Robbed!"

Carefull now OG

 

[oldgroaner]

Carefull now OG

Come on now Brendan make allowances for an old man's odd sense of humour and smile.

 

[BrendanJ]

No Brendan, the misunderstanding wasn't mine, and in any case you are on the right track, so it's really not important.
Snag is a large faction really believed they would get something rather different, and there will be trouble which UKIP will happily pounce on and other Nut job parties too.

I don't think so, for me it ticks all the boxes and is not really a negotiation in some sense, I think events will show it to be the natural flow of direction

 

[oldgroaner]

I don't think so, for me it ticks all the boxes and is not really a negotiation in some sense, I think events will show it to be the natural flow of direction

"for me it ticks all the boxes" undoubtedly however for many its a betrayal,
Where will they seek expression of their anger? and how will Farage spin that to his advantage?

 

[BrendanJ]

"for me it ticks all the boxes" undoubtedly however for many its a betrayal,
Where will they seek expression of their anger? and how will Farage spin that to his advantage?

What do you think is the betrayal, we will leave the eu, gain back our borders, reclaim our sovereignty and continue free trade?

 

[derf]

White plastic chair manufacturers will be successful in your federation d8ve..
The reality of Europe now is worlds apart from the image portrayed. When eu manage to sort stuff out comensurate with a civilised country everywhere and not just in specific wealthy regions then your federation might work.
In mean time (IMO) eu wastes time and money on wrong things. Its a gravy train for too many. Lord Hill , our resigned commissioner, receives £40k per year for 3 years post his resignation. Can you imagine that in private sector,education or our civil service.

i hate to rain on the happy parade in this thread, but those who read this factual article
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5118-gbp-to-eur-and-current-account
will gather that the pound IS heading for parity with the euro (yes brendan, it will have lost a third of its value in two years from now), and (this should really make the benefit brexiters in teh midlands happy) public spending will go down by the same fraction (its how conservatives balance public spending deficits in the real world) so, whatever seemd like austerity in UK so far is really nothing compared with whats to come.

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

Interestingly the tories are now saying Osbourne damaged remain campaign with his scare tactics.
None of them seem capable of saying things as they are, everything is modified or exaggerated to further their own cause.
How can they get away with it ? Oh hang on a minute , ge didn't..

 

[BrendanJ]

i hate to rain on the happy parade in this thread, but those who read this factual article
https://www.poundsterlinglive.com/gbp-live-today/5118-gbp-to-eur-and-current-account
will gather that the pound IS heading for parity with the euro (yes brendan, it will have lost a third of its value in two years from now), and (this should really make the benefit brexiters in teh midlands happy) public spending will go down by the same fraction (its how conservatives balance public spending deficits in the real world) so, whatever seemd like austerity in UK so far is really nothing compared with whats to come.

Just opinions about parity I believe, it is doing very nicely now about 5% down but reality is on all previous occasions lower ex rate helps our economy, and actually it hurts europes because of deflation which is really killing them.
I read also that some experts think £ is to high anyway and should be 15% lower.
Roll it I say, believe it or not most countries, US, China are actually trying to devalue there own currencies. We are one step ahead and by accident

 

[oldgroaner]

What do you think is the betrayal, we will leave the eu, gain back our borders, reclaim our sovereignty and continue free trade?

Brendan this isn't something I am saying, it is what I am hearing, frankly the mood round here could be better,
And good old may has added yet another bit of petrol to the blaze
After all the fuss from Gove saying we can't throw out undesirables because the Foreigners wont let us, she comes out with this this morning
Now this is humorous
"
Q: You are home secretary, and responsible for immigration. And remain lost because of immigration. So why should people trust you to control it?

May says she has done this. She has sat around the table in Europe. And she delivered in Europe. Other people have delivered in Europe too. Like Boris Johnson. The last time he did a deal with the Germans, he came back with three nearly new water cannon."
Handy eh? well done Boris!
And then
"
Q: [From my colleague Rowena Mason] Are you still committed to pulling out of the European convention on human rights?

May says she set our her views on this in a speech. But there is no parliamentary majority for leaving the ECHR, and so she will not be pursuing it.

• May says she has abandoned plans to try to get Britain to withdraw from the European convention on human rights."

Oh Dear round here that was one of the promises that has obviously been broken as well.
There is no Parliamentary Majority for it?
That hardly fits with the will of the people who want out, does it?

I hope that Boris got three second hand water cannons that are in good condition, perhaps it would be wise to send him back to get more?

 

[oldgroaner]

Interestingly the tories are now saying Osbourne damaged remain campaign with his scare tactics.
None of them seem capable of saying things as they are, everything is modified or exaggerated to further their own cause.
How can they get away with it ? Oh hang on a minute , ge didn't..

But Boris has, hasn't he? and so has Farage, so remind me, what was your point?

 

[BrendanJ]

Brendan this isn't something I am saying, it is what I am hearing, frankly the mood round here could be better,
And good old may has added yet another bit of petrol to the blaze
After all the fuss from Gove saying we can't throw out undesirables because the Foreigners wont let us, she comes out with this this morning
Now this is humorous
"
Q: You are home secretary, and responsible for immigration. And remain lost because of immigration. So why should people trust you to control it?

May says she has done this. She has sat around the table in Europe. And she delivered in Europe. Other people have delivered in Europe too. Like Boris Johnson. The last time he did a deal with the Germans, he came back with three nearly new water cannon."
Handy eh? well done Boris!
And then
"
Q: [From my colleague Rowena Mason] Are you still committed to pulling out of the European convention on human rights?

May says she set our her views on this in a speech. But there is no parliamentary majority for leaving the ECHR, and so she will not be pursuing it.

• May says she has abandoned plans to try to get Britain to withdraw from the European convention on human rights."

Oh Dear round here that was one of the promises that has obviously been broken as well.
There is no Parliamentary Majority for it?
That hardly fits with the will of the people who want out, does it?

I hope that Boris got three second hand water cannons that are in good condition, perhaps it would be wise to send him back to get more?

I understand what you say, but I don't think the convention on human rights was one of the main campaign points of the Brexit campaign, just another party political issue, which of course should be debated as usual
Never the less Brexit will enable that if the collective will is for it

 

[oldgroaner]

I understand what you say, but I don't think the convention on human rights was one of the main campaign points of the Brexit campaign, just another party political issue, which of course should be debated as usual
Never the less Brexit will enable that if the collective will is for it

Don't you indeed
"Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country."
Well the truth is that the EU does allow you to throw out undesirables if they constitute a danger to the public, and he should have known that.
What happens then is that they appeal to the ECHR.
Now a leading Membership contestant confirms that won't change.
Anyone with half a brain will see that another pledge has been quietly ditched, wont they? adding to the general dismay at being robbed.
Farage will go to town on things like this won't he?
By the way Who's collective will are you referring to? politicians or the public? the politicians are slowly exerting control in the way they want and people are noticing, worse, Farage and co will be.

 

[BrendanJ]

Don't you indeed
"Laws which govern citizens in this country are decided by politicians from other nations who we never elected and can’t throw out. We can take out our anger on elected representatives in Westminster but whoever is in Government in London cannot remove or reduce VAT, cannot support a steel plant through troubled times, cannot build the houses we need where they’re needed and cannot deport all the individuals who shouldn’t be in this country."
Well the truth is that the EU does allow you to throw out undesirables if they constitute a danger to the public, and he should have known that.
What happens then is that they appeal to the ECHR.
Now a leading Membership contestant confirms that won't change.
Anyone with half a brain will see that another pledge has been quietly ditched, wont they? adding to the general dismay at being robbed.
Farage will go to town on things like this won't he?

The point still is that gaining our sovereignty back means we can decide these things, in the current EU it was a symptom of them over reaching themselves, in a common trade area this is not within there gift

 

[BrendanJ]

OG
I understand and agree your frustrations with the political processes and classes.
We are stuck with that until we change it through the usual processes
The key issue EU in my opinion was not the solution to the problem, only compounding it
Now we have our chance to address that at least

 

[(NoLongerRegistered#15675)]

The article suggests the cause of that parity( which was forecast to happen before) is our massive deficit. Which as yet brexit has had no affect on.
This is going to be case ad infinitum now. Anything negative is Brexit.

This post is rather isolated..was replying to a comment about pound/ euro. ( for some reason quote not included) Volume of posting...