Brexit, for once some facts.

[Kudoscycles]

UK - laughing stock!

Ok, this rather sums up day1 of our negotiating posture:

View attachment 19800

I'll bet nobody thought it could get any more embarrassing!

Tom

So much for the Theresa May team taking a strong stance. But we knew that we would be the losers and have started on the back foot.
KudosDave

 

[Danidl]

I wonder how many Brexiters will agree £60 billion divorce bill,seems a large sum when we can't pay £2 billion more into our NHS or pay for our own social care.
A friend of mine in Greece pointed out to me a big problem that nobody has discussed yet. My friend has lived in Greece many years,sadly he is not well now and needs frequent treatment at the local health clinic,which is covered under the E111 deal.
There are 3.2 million UK expats in EU countries,these are mostly retired older people. Unless the E111 agreement continues,which is unlikely, these people will have to take private medical insurance,which because they are old will be prohibitively expensive or they will have to return to the UK ,putting more pressure on our NHS.
Ok ,the same applies to the 1.2 million EU people settled in the UK,but these people are mainly young and less likely to need medical help.
It may be that we will have to pick up the bill for our citizens abroad but this is 3 million paid for by one country. The 1.2 million could be supported and spread between 27 countries.
We have to be careful what we agree to in these UK v EU negotiations.
KudosDave

... Some of us were well aware of this, certainly the readers pages in magazines like French Property and similar titles have been voicing it for months.

 

[Danidl]

UK - laughing stock!

Ok, this rather sums up day1 of our negotiating posture:

View attachment 19800

I'll bet nobody thought it could get any more embarrassing!

Tom

.. the good news is that those papers and headlines from yesterday are now holding the kitchen waste , so need not be referred to again.

 

[oldgroaner]

Fro the Telegraph this morning
"
Slamming the door on soft BrexitDavid Davis and Michel Barnier confirm Britain will leave the single market and customs union as talks begin.

That's it then, negotiations didn't take long did they? Davis and co might as well come home after a job well done, but I thought wars weren't won by surrendering on the spot?

Silly me

 

[Woosh]

That's it then, negotiations didn't take long did they?

we will ask for a transition period.
at the end of it, I expect we'll move toward a customs union or a new referendum.

 

[oldtom]

It has turned out that after all his bluff and bluster, David Davis has simply turned up and demonstrated that while he can talk the talk, he certainly can't walk the walk!



Just another liar, fraud and charlatan! In other words, a tory.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

oldtom,
I have not seen David Davis saying anything outrageous on TV.
His premise is clear: negotiate the divorce then future trading relationship if the tories' hold onto government lasts until then.

I can't see how you justify hurling insults at the man.

 

[oldgroaner]

It has turned out that after all his bluff and bluster, David Davis has simply turned up and demonstrated that while he can talk the talk, he certainly can't walk the walk!

View attachment 19810

Just another liar, fraud and charlatan! In other words, a tory.

Tom

Should've sent Boris, at least he would have insulted them instead of grovelling, it doesn't matter who we send does it?
The EU don't play fair, they have competent politicians.

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[Woosh]

Should've sent Boris, at least he would have insulted them instead of grovelling

Davis has not grovelled.
TM sends the right man for the job.

 

[oldgroaner]

Davis has not grovelled.
TM sends the right man for the job.

To fail and end up with hard brexit, absolutely right!
Exactly as she intended

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

 

[oldtom]

Davis has not grovelled.
TM sends the right man for the job.

I sincerely admire your tenacity in always attempting to defend the indefensible.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

To fail and end up with hard brexit, absolutely right!
Exactly as she intended

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk

there is no reason to assume that is the outcome.
our position is clear, if you want to bother checking it out, we want a transition period during which, it won't be hard brexit.
If the conservative government lasts well into 2019, and Mr Fox can show that we will be able to offset the loss in EU trade with new trade then, yes, it will be hard brexit.
If, like many economists expected, the new trade can't replace the loss in EU trade, then Mr Fox won't last long.

 

[Woosh]

I sincerely admire your tenacity in always attempting to defend the indefensible.

Tom

it is your tone in this thread that is indefensible.

 

[oldgroaner]

there is no reason to assume that is the outcome.
our position is clear, if you want to bother checking it out, we want a transition period during which, it won't be hard brexit.
If the conservative government lasts well into 2019, and Mr Fox can show that we will be able to offset the loss in EU trade with new trade then, yes, it will be hard brexit.
If, like many economists expected, the new trade can't replace the loss in EU trade, then Mr Fox won't last long.

I really can't see how that is going to work, when the foreign companies take the additional time to move into the EU, even if we get new orders, who will manufacture them?
This is so forlorn a dream that it is lunatic in the extreme. As is the notion the EU won't take those orders before we do.
Who would be mad enough to invest in the new factories we will need, or even continue with the present ones on such a gamble as that?
On the one hand you can move into the worlds biggest market on the other invest in a broken down nation up to its ears in debt?

 

[oldgroaner]

oldtom,
I have not seen David Davis saying anything outrageous on TV.
His premise is clear: negotiate the divorce then future trading relationship if the tories' hold onto government lasts until then.

I can't see how you justify hurling insults at the man.

Except for the fact that as oldtom pointed out Davis went back on his words of the previous day, and damaged his credibility on the first day.
This constitutes a public lie.
The man is clearly not to be trusted.
Someone should be asking why are we doing this? It makes no sense at all.

 

[Woosh]

Except for the fact that as oldtom pointed out Davis went back on his words of the previous day, and damaged his credibility on the first day.
This constitutes a public lie.
The man is clearly not to be trusted.
Someone should be asking why are we doing this? It makes no sense at all.

you are so engrossed in your own argument that you don't see the simple logic.
The EU has decided the timetable, that is they will only talk about future relationship after we have left.
It won't be long, by the end of the year, we'll know for sure how long we will have to explore those options, the period so-called transitional arrangements.
I think 2-3 years should be enough for Mr Fox to work his wonders or eat humble pie.
You can't stop the cost of brexit, 52% voted for it, we expect to pay until either we succeed or have another referendum.

 

[flecc]

You can't stop the cost of brexit, 52% voted for it, we expect to pay until either we succeed or have another referendum.

And beyond, for there are projects we won't want to leave so will have to continue paying for indefinitely.

And in other cases the projects have an ongoing cost to completion that we agreed to by joining in with them. Those we'll have to pay for whether we want to continue with them or not.
.

 

[Woosh]

I am not worried about the costs of brexit because if they are high then the tories are to blame and will be punished at the next GE.

 

[tillson]

I really can't see how that is going to work, when the foreign companies take the additional time to move into the EU, even if we get new orders, who will manufacture them?
This is so forlorn a dream that it is lunatic in the extreme. As is the notion the EU won't take those orders before we do.
Who would be mad enough to invest in the new factories we will need, or even continue with the present ones on such a gamble as that?
On the one hand you can move into the worlds biggest market on the other invest in a broken down nation up to its ears in debt?

So what do you think is in this for the Tory's? Why are the friends of big business and the banks taking us down this route?

 

[oldgroaner]

So what do you think is in this for the Tory's? Why are the friends of big business and the banks taking us down this route?

Eliminating the welfare state, and
Creating a low cost state with privately owned services and a Tax haven economy, and subservient cheap workforce on a par with the living standards of the far East would be my guess.
A very effective racket if you are one of the rich elite.
What is your take on their reasons?

Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk