Brexit, for once some facts.

oldgroaner

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Craig Murray, former Ambassador to Uzbekistan which, for those not up on their geography, is a little to the east of Lutonstan and Watfordstan:).....about 3,000 miles or so actually, has given forth with his views on Jeremy Corbyn.

Given the utterances from the current Defence Secretary, Michael Fallon, one could be forgiven for thinking that Corbyn is somehow a danger to UK security. I actually think he has slandered Corbyn disgracefully over the issue of nuclear weapons but Murray's opinion of Corbyn makes much more sense to me than anything ever to have come out of the mouth of Fallon. Here is the link:

the-corbyn-conundrum

I share Murray's view on the invalidity of nuclear armaments as a deterrent and I also agree with his comments on Fallon in his recent tweet:

View attachment 18906

Tom




The problem for me with this deterrent business is that I really cannot see why any country would actually want to invade us, when they can visit 24/7
There's nothing actually here worth the effort of launching an invasion, is there?
Why for instance are we at any greater risk than Eire for instance?
 

Woosh

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May 19, 2012
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military power counts for not much nowadays, economic power is what counts. We were economically 5th most powerful country before brexit, now 6th, France went from 6th place to 5th place.
If/when the EU becomes a superstate, they will be the real superpower, more powerful than the USA and China.
 
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Danidl

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The problem for me with this deterrent business is that I really cannot see why any country would actually want to invade us, when they can visit 24/7
There's nothing actually here worth the effort of launching an invasion, is there?
Why for instance are we at any greater risk than Eire for instance?
.... They will invade the UK on their way to Ireland.. the true promised land... And boy when they get here will they be disappointed!
 

oldgroaner

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.... They will invade the UK on their way to Ireland.. the true promised land... And boy when they get here will they be disappointed!
My wife is Irish, and her elderly aunt had a rather amusing comment to make
"Sure tis a strange world we're living in, I never thought I'd live to see the day when people are clamouring to go to the emerald isle instead o' leaving it"

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homemoz

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Sep 29, 2007
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Finally lost my rag with the BBC news & made a complaint. See below:

"Full Complaint: I thought the interview with Tim Farron on the 6 pm news re: Gay sex was aimed at discreting him rather than providing an open and fair interview. The interviewer asked closed questions which presumed that he had misled the electorate about his views on gay sex. There was absolutely no evidence that this was the case as far as I could see. I also fail to see how his personal views have any bearing on the current election which is focused on Brexit and not gay marriage or sex.

The BBC seems much more cautious in it's questioning of Conservative politicians. For example, earlier in the same news broadcast, there seemed to be a more subtle bias in the presentation of Labour policies. These were questioned from the point of view that they were unclear & that the Labour party is split. This may be the case but, as a counter there was no questioning of Theresa May's statement that a mandate for her would strengthen her hand in Brexit negotiations. The first question, I would have asked any of the Conservative representatives is 'how specifically" and "in what way". This seems much more relevant than closed questioning about gay sex to Tim Farron. Finally, I understand that some of Theresa May's closest advisors have recently resigned. However, this has not been reported on the BBC news as a far as I can see & perhaps should have been in the context of even handed and unbiased reporting. "



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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
However, this has not been reported on the BBC news as a far as I can see & perhaps should have been in the context of even handed and unbiased reporting. "
With respect 'homemoz', the tenor of your post suggests a degree of surprise in addition to your general anger. Some of us have been banging a drum about exactly that for a long time but I actually believe that the general public are finally waking up to the fact that the BBC is no longer fit for purpose as a taxpayer-funded, independent news provider.

Some innocent souls still seem to imagine that the BBC is run by and populated by a bunch of lefties and champagne socialists but that's because they have been brainwashed all their lives to believe that by the tory media....which amounts to about 90% of what is euphemistically called the popular press. Nothing could be further from the truth and any, even semi-forensic, examination of the frontline staff employed by the BBC will illustrate that the place is riddled from top to bottom with tory supporters. You can gain information on most of the usual suspects from an internet search and Wikipedia is useful in that regard, just for starters.

The BBC should be investigated for many reasons; there is the false news issue, the smear campaign against Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party generally. The religious make-up of the organisation also begs questions, as do the Chairmanship appointments over the last quarter century.

It is worth remembering that this once-great institution has covered up sexual perverts including child molesters and is one of the leading sources of investigations by several police agencies, not yet necessarily completed. Moreover, questions arise over the Cliff Richard fiasco and the BBC's presence on the scene when police attended Richard's premises as part of a serious allegation they were investigating.

There exists a complete lack of real transparency about the corporation's distribution of the taxpayer's funding and about their recruitment policy and internal promotion structures that would be unacceptable in other agencies of state. Much like the arts, the BBC seems fairly immune to expenditure cutbacks while the government continues to insist on austerity for the masses.

Not so many years ago, most people couldn't imagine the UK without a coal mining industry or major shipbuilding, British-owned carmaking or the ability to construct our own power stations, even though we were pioneers in the nuclear industry. It doesn't require any particular stretch of the imagination to see a future without the BBC, given the multitude of TV companies and radio providers to which we all have access in this 21st century.

Tom
 
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oldtom

Esteemed Pedelecer
Mrs May has been advised she ought to go out and visit the plebs - good for publicity when an election is in the offing - but I'm not sure her personal charm and political nous are sufficient to win over the kind of people who have to pay tax on their earnings, unlike the people to whom she normally cosies up.

18118607_912761122199741_8915168717713249125_n.jpg

Do they look impressed to you?

Tom
 
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homemoz

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Oldtom -I quite agree. I have ranted privately about the BBC for some time. Mainly, the national news which seems very dumbed down as well as offering both blatant and subtle biases. I felt strongly last night because the biases were so blatant. I have no delusions that my complaint would make any difference but find the present situation in politics very disturbing both here & in the USA. I was angry and make no apologies for that. I am normally fairly moderate, so if I am worried perhaps others are as well. At least, I hope so. Having conducted a straw poll amongst my friends, I was surprised the they had privately felt in a similar way towards the BBC.


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oldgroaner

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The best way for the Lib Dems to campaign would be to point out that Brexit was in fact simply a device to transfer control of affairs further away from not merely the EU which was in fact not an overbearing tyrannical organisation as portrayed, but actually a moderating influence, into the hands of the real enemies of the public, our own politicians and the people who buy and sell them.

It was in fact the Finale of a plot lasting for a generation to return power to the Elite using the very convenient instrument of a Democratic referendum, warped to their will by propaganda and lies and false promises.

They suborned the will of the people that had been carefully encouraged to believe in "False Truths" to vote against their own interests, without them realising they had done so, and after the event the pressure on them not to reconsider has been none stop and vitriolic in nature.

What is a worrying trait of the British Public is it's reluctance to actually examine facts that are self evident, for example
How can one balance these two widely disparate things?
  1. Teresa May calls an election and asks for people to Vote for "Strong and Stable Government"
  2. Why does she need to do so, unless we actually don't have that already and the Government is neither of these things?
Yet the Media press the Lib Dem leader over what is really a Red Herring against the magnitude of events talking place to divert attention from the major issues.
 

oldgroaner

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Nov 15, 2015
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View attachment 18923

I don't need to add anything to this.

Tom
I can answer that

How about
"Because they know that people would rather owe £1.8 Trillion pounds to be under a Tory Government that will rip them off, and fail misrably to prevent it getting far, far worse.
Than £350 Millions (less deductions) to the EU that will improve their lives, Environment, Holidays, Health and Security etc., etc."

While that may seem fantastic and impossible for anyone to believe, enough do to elect a Tory Government, no matter how often it lies to them and is even proven to have done so.
 
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flecc

Member
Oct 25, 2006
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Oldtom -I quite agree. I have ranted privately about the BBC for some time. Mainly, the national news which seems very dumbed down as well as offering both blatant and subtle biases.
I would never want to be without the BBC for a number of program reasons, and the licence fee never bothered me.

But given their problematic relationship to the news, perhaps the answer is for their channels not being allowed to produce their own news programs. Either not show any news or have news programs supplied by other producers.

A difficult one to get past any governments though, since our governments value the BBC's World Service.
.
 
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This from a friend in the financial services industry, when asked about his thoughts.

How My Sector of Financial Services will be affected:

There have been 2 Parliamentary Reports in to how Brexit will hit our FS. The HoL report is published and the HoC Report may have been published without agreement to the Leave MPs on the Select Committee because they wouldn't accept the findings and walked out!

However both Reports found that:

FS accounts for £61 billion income to the U.K.

£8 billion is from direct selling of insurance products from the U.K. To the EU.

There are 5,600 firms in my sector that do this business, some very large and generalised, some tiny but very specialised like my firm.

All these firms do business in the Single Market via "passport rights" these are agreed by each of the 28 countries Financial Regulators.

In the U.K. There are two Groups that represent the firms that do business in the EU.

For Brokers ( like my firm) it is British Insurance Brokers Association. BIBA

For Insurers it is the London Market Group. LMG.

Both BIBA and LMG form study groups to report to May's Government about the effects Hard Brexit would have. These were works in progress before the January Lancaster House Speech where she said we are coming out of the Single Market.

In both these Reports the figures of £61 billion and sub limit of £8 billion were established beyond doubt.

The number of jobs dependent on these FS is 2.1 million U.K. Jobs. About 1 million in insurance services and 1.1 million in Banking.

So currently without a trade agreement that "replicates" the single Market in two years time all these services and jobs will disappear over to the EU.

However, my Market (insurance) can't hang around to wait, and most including Lloyd's of London are establishing trading based in the EU now.

Lloyd's has moved its European business to a new underwriting platform in Brussels after 328 years of dealing this business in London. Jobs will follow.

Companies like mine are already establishing offices and presence in other EU countries.for my firm it will probably be in Dublin. But the regulator there says we can't have a "plaque on the wall" and we must do business from Dublin, so jobs will follow.

All this is happening now, because of May's Lancaster House Speech! Which she says she has authority to do from the Referendum result. For many including the BIBA and LMG working groups, that assertion seems fanciful because the Referendum Act did not say what would happen after the result apart from it going back to Parliament.

So this "we are out of the single market" idea appears to be the "political will" of this Brexit Cabinet, not necessarily the "will of the people".

Does it matter to the ordinary person in the street?

Yes it will, because we will lose all that income that will now be held in foreign banks, lose the taxes on it, no Corporation Tax, and no NI or PAYE from the jobs that move from the UK to the EU, and some of these are some are the highest paid workers in this country.

Then there are all the jobs that will be lost that rely on the economy driven by these high paid workers.

The child care, builders, plumbers, electricians, estate agents and letting agents, and high street Bistro,Coffee shops and bakers, butchers, etc etc! The list is endless.

All this uncertainty from one "Speech" May gave!

So I hope this helps when you are faced with the Leave complainers saying it will all be alright!

Because I see it all falling apart right now, not in two years time.
 

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