Brexit, for once some facts.
- Thread starter flecc
- Start date
the tories are like bad builders.
You have them in, they rip you off and wreck your house.
Don't hire them again.
Whereas brexit is like changing house.
There will be cost but you may like the new house better.
Who knows. Time will tell.
I heard there was a depression centred over Lake District !! Obviously not talking about the weather. Xx
But once again, no leave proponents said there would be any cost, they all claimed exactly the opposite, a very big saving.
Now we know there will be a large cost and no savings for many years. There's a substantial chance that we will be permanently worse off.
Brexit is a bit like the letters some get from Nigeria, " - - send me a handling fee of £500 and you will receive an inheritance of millions by return".
.
we all have to learn the lesson the hard way: caveat emptor.
Politicians are professional liars and not just professional politicians, aspiring politicians are liars too as you have seen in the case of Mr Trump, for everything he does, there are a tweet or two to the opposite.
and here is to DC:
Oh, baby, baby
Oh, baby, baby
Oh, baby, baby
How was I supposed to know
That something wasn't right here?
Oh, baby, baby
I shouldn't have let you go
And now you're out of sight, yeah
Show me how you want it to be
Tell me, baby,
'Cause I need to know now, oh, because...
Brexit is killing me now (and I)
I must confess, I still believe (still believe)
Oh, baby, baby
Oh, baby, baby
Oh, baby, baby
How was I supposed to know
That something wasn't right here?
Oh, baby, baby
I shouldn't have let you go
And now you're out of sight, yeah
Show me how you want it to be
Tell me, baby,
'Cause I need to know now, oh, because...
Brexit is killing me now (and I)
I must confess, I still believe (still believe)
.... Are these letters Not real then? And can I get my 500 back?
if that was the case, then it's no worse than the cost of lancing a boil.
We all need to know if we are as good, as efficient as our ambition to be a global player.
There is a fundamental issue with freedom of movement and free trade regarding wages.
If you have free trade without or with less freedom of movement, wages in productive economies remain high and a larger proportion of wealth will go to workers. If you have FOM the way it is at the moment, the factory owners reap the profit to the detriment of the local workforce.
More likely the new house will be even worse than the previous one and fall down before it's time!
Even though in front of every single housing development is the inevitable sign
"Another Award Winning Development of Executive homes/ Apartments etc"
And in fact many are on the site of old local Landfill Rubbish tips, or demolished Factory working in now banned chemicals and toxins, and even as has happened locally in a flood plain.
(it still does!)
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How then do you explain wages have risen while we have been in the EU and to my recollection not only were they much lower before then, but even Holidays were not paid, and were fewer in number too.
In those days you were paid less for longer hours, had no rights, and Health and Safety was unheard of, so the argument you have made is inaccurate.
Tell me how do you become a "Global player" when all of your manufacturing is Foreign owned, and we have no Merchant Navy any more?
Are we going to post things abroad?
As to wages rising to the benefit of the Workforce, that is absolutely not the intention of the chief culprits pushing Brexit, now is it?
As to this
"We all need to know if we are as good, as efficient as our ambition to be a global player."
We have ample evidence of that already and the answer is emphatically we couldn't even compete if the game was "Welly Throwing"
If we were any good the only manufacturing companies that seem able to make a living here wouldn't be both Foreign owned and have Foreign Management and control systems.
And our so called investors are only into get rich schemes abroad, (no names no pack drill if you know what I mean)
Hence all the money goes abroad into "joint Venture" Far Eastern Factories, and it won't be coming back as that would be risky.
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Still here? how odd, shouldn't you be heading for the Caribbean to practice your limbo dancing under the Tax office doors?
This is our fundamental difference, I have no ambition for the UK to be a global player, since in this world of giants I see that as wholly unrealistic. I'm prepared to hold on for the EU to be the global player. Its northern countries and some eastern bloc ones are already strong enough combined for that, once the southern ones are dealt with it can happen.
Only for a while, gradually the migration of workers will equalise the situation. It's already happened in some eastern bloc countries where wages and costs have risen enough for their emigrant workers to return. That's a sure sign of the value of the combination of free movement and no borders.
.
Slanderous comments now OG...a new low.
But one of reasons there are so many yachts ,dive boats etc etc in BVI is there is no VAT...and its one of nicest places in world...lets face it Richard Branson could go where he liked...he,s here...( Well Necker Island about 10 miles away)
To be fair scenery in BVI is very similar to Lake District but without OG...
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Accusing you of being a limbo dancer is slanderous?
Well I never!
But the comment new low was topical!
Sent from my XT1032 using Tapatalk
.... Well if Zlantan is a troll, as alleged, does that make oldtom, old groaner and flecc the three billy goatsgruff? And if so who gets to be daddybillygoat, who bunts the troll off the bridge?
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.. I cannot follow this logic.
Why would wages go up in a productive economy if the workers are trapped and the goods can be freely traded elsewhere in the globe.? It would require an altruistic employer or a highly democratic government
Even with FMoP, there will be some friction, people reluctant to change schools regions, property. So they may opt to remain in lower economic activities for family reasons even where there is freedom of movement.
Let's say you own a factory producing a very successful automobile.
Free trade means you can sell/export more of your cars.
Success in sales means you need to recruit more workers. FOM like it is at the moment lets you recruit the workers you need elsewhere more cheaply. Those workers depress wages, reduce tax take and send part of their income back home, resulting in them spending less locally.
FOM reduces the tax take and the consumption in the host country.
From a macro-economic point of view, free trade is most successful for the host country when you can control and restrict FOM.
It is mainstream, conventional economics.I don't imagine it.
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.. I can follow your argument and can easily agree that it is advantageous for the host country, but it does not follow that it is in anyway advantageous for the workers in that country. There is no incentive for the manufacturer to raise the wages or purchasing power of the workers. He runs out of workers limiting profits , possibly engages in off shore production , since his trade is free. This policy of holding down wages would be particularly true if the manufacturer joined in a cartel with other manufacturers and deliberately held down wages or running no poaching policies. In small closed economies this is easier to achieve.