Brexit, for once some facts.

Zlatan

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 26, 2016
8,086
4,290
What eveyone needs to remember is that the real problem ahead isn't the people who voted for Brexit, as let's face it, you can kid them with any old rubbish.
Brexit has to please the 48% like me , not merely as well, but even better, as we are not so easily conned into accepting a poor deal.
Please you forfuckssake......no chance.
You could live in a brothel with free beer and services and you,d still sulk and moan..
 

homemoz

Pedelecer
Sep 29, 2007
181
168
UK
I voted remain & I would do so again. I actually believe in a federation of europe as something which is highly desirable as a counter to nationalism. I accept that is not going to happen any time soon & that I have no control over present events. However, I feel no moral obligation to get behind Brexit as it is somehow suggested I should. I see no evidence of those promoting Brexit as having got behind the EU. I seem to recall that the goal was to actively undermine the aims of the EU. My position is one of hostile neutrality unless there emerges some evidence that Brexit 1. Increases tolerance and inclusivity. 2. Reduces economic inequality between rich and poor. 3. Inceases peace and stability in Europe 4. Increases funding for the NHS and social care. If these start to happen then I will happily change my mind. Until then, as far as I am concerned it is the responsibility of those that support Brexit to show that there is substance behind the rhetoric, posturing and threats. In the meantime I will get on with my life.

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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
I voted remain & I would do so again. I actually believe in a federation of europe as something which is highly desirable as a counter to nationalism. I accept that is not going to happen any time soon & that I have no control over present events. However, I feel no moral obligation to get behind Brexit as it is somehow suggested I should. I see no evidence of those promoting Brexit as having got behind the EU. I seem to recall that the goal was to actively undermine the aims of the EU. My position is one of hostile neutrality unless there emerges some evidence that Brexit 1. Increases tolerance and inclusivity. 2. Reduces economic inequality between rich and poor. 3. Inceases peace and stability in Europe 4. Increases funding for the NHS and social care. If these start to happen then I will happily change my mind. Until then, as far as I am concerned it is the responsibility of those that support Brexit to show that there is substance behind the rhetoric, posturing and threats. In the meantime I will get on with my life.

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You're hostile unless tolerance increases? You might want to think this through a little more.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
They may well have made a statement to the effect that the UK would no longer be obliged to adhere rigidly to EU legislation concerning these matters. However, it does not mean that following such a statement, the UK will automatically embark on a course of action to dismantle the legislation. We will probably adopt all of it in the initial stages, we may well tighten some aspects and relax others in the future, I don't know.

What is garbage is the notion that we will go on an orgy of reckless abandonment of this type of legislation once unshackled from the one size fits all EU approach. The taking of an individual aspect of BREXIT and then extrapolating it to a ridiculous extreme is prevalent on this thread and it is idiotic and it is child like.
You must have been born yesterday if you believe that the Government will play nicely, they will forget that they are on notice from the Voters to change for the better and indulge their worst excesses thinking they have a cast iron excuse to do so.
 

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
You're talking about the 5th biggest economy in the world. Have a little faith my friend. Relax and enjoy the ride.
This notion of the fifth biggest economy is a nonsense, how much of it is real, and not just financial swindles? what matter for us to have a prosperous future is to actually re-industrialise, not simply run as a glorified betting shop and money laundering operation as we do now.

If I was you I would read the over notice flashing above your head
"Return to your seat and fasten your seat Belt, we are entering Turbulence"

Your wishful thinking won't serve us now.
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
Please you forfuckssake......no chance.
You could live in a brothel with free beer and services and you,d still sulk and moan..
Actually you are right to some extent, you might think living in a Brothel with free beer is desirable, but that says a great deal about you that you shouldn't have revealed, and it certainly isn't my idea of fun.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,386
16,882
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk

oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
most of this list is achievable.
Have a little faith in our negotiators.
The one that matters is number 5: Protection of rights
Completely no chance of achieving that.

The government has already stated that Repealing the EU employment directive is number one priority.

And 10; immigration Drastically reduced? only because people wont want to come here!
 
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oldgroaner

Esteemed Pedelecer
Nov 15, 2015
23,461
32,613
80
A word from Lord Nigel and good advice too!
"
Nigel Farage: I will emigrate if Brexit is a disaster
But the former Ukip leader told a caller to his LBC radio show that he didn't think it was going to be one

Right you are Nigel, Germany, will that be?
What about the rest you lied to that don't have that option?

Anyway welcome to Britain AKA
"The Antiques Road Show" on Mad Wednesday.

Now begins the Campaign to rejoin the EU
 
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D8ve

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 30, 2013
2,142
1,294
Bristol
@D8ve, have you heard of the lexiteers?
if you haven't, this guy explains their view better than I can.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/03/28/opinion/why-brexit-is-best-for-britain-the-left-wing-case.html?_r=0
An American giving political advice,
But it's mostly puffery, stating the elected parliament is toothless and the real power is held by the Eurocrats. Simple claims but lacks detail.
Read it.
The biggest point of the EU for me was no inter European war as a conjoined body.
I never want us to be involved in war, IT IS BAD.
 

tillson

Esteemed Pedelecer
May 29, 2008
5,252
3,197
Here is the Heseltine view for anyone who has missed it:


Tom
On the one hand you are telling us that the Conservative party are fascists, that they are our enemies. Michael Heseltine was a government minister in Thatcher's era! A Conservative through and through. Now, on the other hand you are promoting the views of this person, who according to you and by association to the Conservative party, is a fascist and our enemy.

Other than, if it's bad BREXIT news it must be true, there is absolutely no consistency in your views and therefore you have absolutely no credibility. Your teachings regarding who we should listen to flip-flop back and forth like an old worn out sandal. Make your mind man!

Same with OG. One day the Mail tells nothing but lies, the next when its running a story which is mildly anti-BREXIT, it's gospel.
 

Woosh

Trade Member
May 19, 2012
20,386
16,882
Southend on Sea
wooshbikes.co.uk
An American giving political advice,
the author is Alan Johnson, he works here.
http://fathomjournal.org/author/alan-johnson/

But it's mostly puffery, stating the elected parliament is toothless and the real power is held by the Eurocrats.
the view of lexiteers is not only the European parliament is toothless, it is not a real parliament, its member have no manifestoes, no legislative programs, nobody listens to them and knows who they are.
On economics, the EU legislation inhibits the tools of Keynesian economics upon which social democracy relies.

As JC Juncker puts it so accurately,

There can be no democratic choice against the European treaties,
I think we can do a better job at building a new Europe than the EU.
 

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OxygenJames

Esteemed Pedelecer
Jan 8, 2012
2,593
1,041
On the one hand you are telling us that the Conservative party are fascists, that they are our enemies. Michael Heseltine was a government minister in Thatcher's era! A Conservative through and through. Now, on the other hand you are promoting the views of this person, who according to you and by association to the Conservative party, is a fascist and our enemy.

Other than, if it's bad BREXIT news it must be true, there is absolutely no consistency in your views and therefore you have absolutely no credibility. Your teachings regarding who we should listen to flip-flop back and forth like an old worn out sandal. Make your mind man!

Same with OG. One day the Mail tells nothing but lies, the next when its running a story which is mildly anti-BREXIT, it's gospel.
The enemy of my enemy is my friend. That's our Tom. Anybody who hates whoever he hates is OK with Tom. No matter what they might say about anything else.
 

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