Brexit, for once some facts.

[oldtom]

The problem with disability benefits is that the system is abused.

Says the man who knows nothing about the system but believes everything the tory media wing have drummed into his head since childhood.

Now, maybe if you were to have the misfortune of suffering severe physical or mental injury or disease, rendering you incapable of performing any worthwhile occupation.....and then managing to satisfy the requirements to receive state benefits........I might be prepared to listen very carefully to what you have to say.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Just for 'Tillson' so he can think of a way to justify and perhaps rationalise this incredible disparity of treatment.



Tom

 

[Woosh]

You are the archetypal 'Brexit' fanboy with no clue whatsoever as to what the future might look like outside the EU but you just don't care

Yes, you are right, I have no clue because I think the future after brexit is not yet known but I think you don't know it any better than I do. So get off your high horse and stop patronizing.

 

[tillson]

Just for 'Tillson' so he can think of a way to justify and perhaps rationalise this incredible disparity of treatment.

View attachment 17948

Tom

To believe that abuse of the benefits system is not taking place is naïve. I have first had witness experience of it taking place, not something that I have read in the Budgerigar.

 

[oldtom]

To believe that abuse of the benefits system is not taking place is naïve. I have first had witness experience of it taking place, not something that I have read in the Budgerigar.

Oh, I'm absolutely certain you have and I expect you have made sure the relevant authorities have been furnished with your information. After all, that would be the civic duty of a responsible citizen.

If every single abuse of the system were identified, I bet it wouldn't amount to a lot of money - nowhere near the sums unpaid by entrepreneurial tax-cheats with fancy investment consultants and accountants on retainers.

I'd also take a guess and say most of the tax cheats are not disabled.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

Yes, you are right, I have no clue because I think the future after brexit is not yet known but I think you don't know it any better than I do. So get off your high horse and stop patronizing.

Are there no limits to your stupidity in regard to 'Brexit'? You even freely admit you have no idea about the future after 'Brexit' yet you still want to go there and drag all the decent people who are happy being part of a massive trading bloc with you.

You then go on to pontificate that I don't know it any better than you! Of course I don't - that's a given for everybody. It is for that reason, therefore, that the sensible position adopted by intelligent people is to remain in the EU unless and until a better proposal appears on the table.

This ludicrous 'Brexit' project is worse than the deal that came back with Chamberlain, written on a scrap of paper and flourished in triumph by a tory leader. Only a mug would trust a tory politician to look after the best interests of British people.

Tom

 

[Woosh]

grow up oldtom. People who voted for brexit know that they don't want the EU anymore.

 

[oldtom]

grow up oldtom. People who voted for brexit know that they don't want the EU anymore.

Yes, of course they do but those are the simpletons, just like you, prepared to jump off a cliff because you believe liars and cheats.

Tom

 

[oldtom]

For the sake of clarity, it is not the fault of the EU that we are seeing PIP benefits being cut. That is entirely the province of the UK government and this article from Vox Political illustrates a little of the problem.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/02/26/tories-admit-pip-assessments-are-meaningless-benefit-is-paid-according-to-cash-available-not-a-claimants-health/

Tom

 

[Woosh]

Yes, of course they do but those are the simpletons, just like you, prepared to jump off a cliff because you believe liars and cheats.

Tom

Jumping of what cliff?
You are a bit what you think of others, oldtom.

 

[oldgroaner]

Jumping of what cliff?
You are a bit what you think of others, oldtom.

Perhaps you should put the telescope to the other eye, Admiral?

 

[oldgroaner]

It's Di[omacy, but not as we know it, more a case of burning bridges while still on them. from the Telegraph.
"
Theresa May poised to announce end of free movement for new EU migrants next month
Theresa May is next month poised to announce the end of free movement for new EU migrants on the same day that she formally triggers Brexit negotiations.

The Prime Minister is expected to say that EU citizens who travel to Britain after she triggers Article 50 will no longer have the automatic right to stay in the UK permanently.

They will instead be subject to migration curbs after Britain leaves the European Union, which could include a new visa regime and restricted access to benefits.

That should really improve out Negotiating position
The woman is even worse than Trump

 

[Woosh]

Perhaps you should put the telescope to the other eye, Admiral?

OG, please describe that cliff edge that you and oldtom see so clearly.
So what happens to the people who rush over it? presumably they'll hit some serious consequences like losing their job or their house?

 

[oldgroaner]

From the Sun
How to defend our Borders
"
WARSHIPS MISFIRE
New fleet of £8bn Royal Navy warships to be fitted with launchers that CANNOT fire British missiles


The frigates have been designed with an American style missile system, but the UK has no ammo for it
Critics say it will cost a fortune to buy new Tomahawk missiles which can be used with the MK-41 silos – and cast doubt on whether it will happen at all.

The Ministry of Defence’s £178bn 10-year equipment plan does not currently allocate any money for their purchase or manufacture.

Former Labour defence minister Kevan Jones branded the programme a “complete dog’s breakfast”, telling the Sunday Times: “It sheds light on the crisis that there is in the defence equipment budget.”

Halleluyah! Theresa May Rules the Waves!
(But needs a loan from the EU to pay for it?)

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, please describe that cliff edge that you and oldtom see so clearly.
So what happens to the people who rush over it? presumably they'll hit some serious consequences like losing their job or their house?

Well done! you have actually spotted one of the many possibilities.
What else do you expect when things go wrong? but frankly that is the LEAST of the problems the lower orders face under a completely free right wing Government.
Have you had your eyes glued shut over the cuts to the NHS, benefits, support for the Disabled and Elderly and local economies?
Are you of the opinion that the Government will seek to make up any shortfall of Tax revenue from people in your comfortable situation or above in the pecking order?
Of course not! the ones at the bottom will suffer and you don't care about them, do you?
The explanations Tom and I others too have already provided are wasted as you refuse to consider them, just push this Gamble that you have set your heart on regardless of common sense saying not to do so.
You can Guarantee Nothing whatsoever, and will not consider anything other than "It will work out fine"
Where is your evidence?

 

[Woosh]

OG, I remain unconvinced by your argument. All the problems you cited are current and created by/connected to tory policies.
You and oldtom seem to lack objectivity and analytical skills so instead of proposing a reasoned argument, you two indulge in trading insults.

 

[tillson]

For the sake of clarity, it is not the fault of the EU that we are seeing PIP benefits being cut. That is entirely the province of the UK government and this article from Vox Political illustrates a little of the problem.

http://voxpoliticalonline.com/2017/02/26/tories-admit-pip-assessments-are-meaningless-benefit-is-paid-according-to-cash-available-not-a-claimants-health/

Tom

It's not a cut. It's a proposal to curtail expansion. That's quite different to a cut.

 

[Woosh]

You can Guarantee Nothing whatsoever, and will not consider anything other than "It will work out fine"
Where is your evidence?

There is no need to look for a guarantee. We have projections from both camps, by very learned people. They differ only on projected economic growth in the region of 1%-2% which will recover when future governments resolve the current uncertainty.
There won't be a recession and EU immigrants will continue to come for the foreseeable future. Where is the cliff edge?

 

[tillson]

Yes, of course they do but those are the simpletons, just like you, prepared to jump off a cliff because you believe liars and cheats.

Tom

More insults. Everyone who has a different opinion to old tom or old groaner is an idiot. Keep them coming, treat your opponents with contempt and you will be rewarded with crushing defeat. You aren't really winning anyone over with this attitude are you? BREXIT continues, but with greater resolve and more certainty.

 

[oldgroaner]

OG, I remain unconvinced by your argument. All the problems you cited are current and created by/connected to tory policies.

Precisely! and now they feel empowered to apply them with renewed intensity.
That is the very cliff edge I refer to
"You voted for the Policies we are being forced to apply in order to make Brexit a success! "will be the call, "Sacrifices have to be made to give you a bright FREE future."
Naturally the people having to make the sacrifices won't be the rich of course
And for a while at least people will fall for this rubbish, and still blame the EU for being "HARSH" on the terms of leaving.
Till they realise there isn't a Bright future.
The only light at the end of the tunnel is the Government demanding more sacrifice from them heavily disguised as an imaginary bonus.